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1/3 JJ oop dry board 1/3 JJ oop dry board

10-25-2013 , 05:52 PM
Villain (~$450) is an old (70s) regular. He tends to be slightly more aggressive than the typical "old guy". I haven't seen him barrel past the flop. Can be sticky. All in all fairly solid.

Hero ($185) is 30s may appear younger, though I think he has me pegged as uber tight. He has folded big hands face up to me on a couple occasions, I never show.

Hero is in early position with JJ. One limper. I make it $15 (probably a little small in retrospect).

Villain is next on my left and calls. Folds all around, heads up.

Pot $40
Flop 10 7 3 rainbow.

Hero bets $25

Villain raises to $55

After looking at the pot vs my stack if I just called, I decided to shove.

I instantly felt like I misplayed this, being such a dry board. I felt like an over pair would have 3 bet pre, and would an over pair even raise here??

Maybe A10 K10, but even those hands wouldn't really fear most turns.

I feel like I played this bad. Should I just learn to fold here? Calling just felt too passive.

Help me learn how to think about these spots.
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10-25-2013 , 06:08 PM
Did the old guy have a card protector (metal thing placed over the cards) shaped like two nuts? (like nuts & bolts.)
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10-25-2013 , 06:13 PM
Yes...

I suspect you saw this hand. Otherwise, kindly stop reading my mind.
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10-25-2013 , 06:15 PM
Weird spot. I don't see why A10 or K10 would be calling you pre. There are no two pairs. Bigger pp's would usually 3bet pre. Sets would simply flat more often than not.

If V was tight or straight forward playing I would insta-fold.

If V played laggy, he could easily be raising you with overs. Unimproved overs make more sense given his play and there are many more combos. Moreover, your c-bet looks FOS given the board. No reason to shove though - just pop it up to $100 and get the rest in on the turn.

Hard to tell what do here given lack of detail in the description...
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10-25-2013 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulkontilt
Yes...

I suspect you saw this hand. Otherwise, kindly stop reading my mind.
I play where you do and know this guy. He had overs.
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10-25-2013 , 06:16 PM
does he raise his big hands for value?
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10-25-2013 , 06:19 PM
re-raise to $100 > shoving > calling > folding
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10-25-2013 , 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHair
does he raise his big hands for value?
He does, but his play is very imbalanced, constantly semi-bluff shoving. People who don't know him fold b/c he is old. He knocked me out of a pot before I figured him out.

He is an old guy aggro. I mean full on aggro.
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10-25-2013 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHair
does he raise his big hands for value?
I know he will apply pressure when he suspects you are weak.

If he has air here, then is raising the right move? Part of my thought process is if he had nothing he's shutting down if I just call anyway.
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10-25-2013 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulkontilt
If he has air here, then is raising the right move? Part of my thought process is if he had nothing he's shutting down if I just call anyway.
Bingo. And he probably has six outs, two if he has a small pp. Of course, there is a small chance he has you beat and you will get stacked.
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10-25-2013 , 06:38 PM
He likes to make his big move on the flop and then shut down w/ his air doesn't he? (I've only played him twice.)
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10-25-2013 , 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by $FishWreck$
re-raise to $100 > shoving > calling > folding
Are we giving up if he calls?
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10-25-2013 , 06:53 PM
Would the typical smaller stakes+older player move of "raising to find out where he's at" possibly apply here?
Is a $30 raise really for value? Your jam is just a little over pot size so might as well. What would you do if a Q-A hits the turn?
Would he raise like this with 89?
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10-25-2013 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulkontilt
Are we giving up if he calls?
With 2/3 of our stack in against a LAG (albeit a senior citizen LAG), saying that we are committed is an understatement. We are shoving any turn if he doesn't bet first.
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10-25-2013 , 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by $FishWreck$
re-raise to $100
Aren't we too shallow to do this? Pot would then be $195 and hero would only have $70 behind.
Hard to do these kinds of things when only playing 60BB deep.
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10-25-2013 , 07:01 PM
honestly the flop re-raise is wonky and we're probably way ahead of his range so raise to 100 and call/shove turn its stupid but thats what happens when pfrs are like 5bbs
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10-25-2013 , 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHair
honestly the flop re-raise is wonky and we're probably way ahead of his range so raise to 100 and call/shove turn
Why suggest raise to $100 then call or shove turn? Again, why leave $70 behind in a $195 pot with intention of then calling or shoving?

Buy in full. Easier raise/fold with $260 behind at that point.
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10-25-2013 , 07:37 PM
$200 is max buy in. It's very frustrating, especially considering the max buy in at 3/5 is $500.

89 isn't very likely, he might call pre with that kind of hand, but not reraise the flop.

I'm out of position, so if he calls a $100 raise it's up to me to ship the turn.
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10-25-2013 , 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAG-NIT
Why suggest raise to $100 then call or shove turn? Again, why leave $70 behind in a $195 pot with intention of then calling or shoving?

Buy in full. Easier raise/fold with $260 behind at that point.
it gives him an opportunity to shove worse
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10-25-2013 , 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulkontilt
$200 is max buy in. It's very frustrating, especially considering the max buy in at 3/5 is $500.

89 isn't very likely, he might call pre with that kind of hand, but not reraise the flop.

I'm out of position, so if he calls a $100 raise it's up to me to ship the turn.
He is reraising the flop w/ 89 but there are so many other more likely hands he could have.
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10-25-2013 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHair
it gives him an opportunity to shove worse
I do see the merit of that, but it also gives him the opportunity to check it down and hold on to $70. If he is the type to 4-bet AI OTF he then should equally be capable of calling it all off. Is the extra $70 scaring him off?
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10-25-2013 , 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAG-NIT
I do see the merit of that, but it also gives him the opportunity to check it down and hold on to $70. If he is the type to 4-bet AI OTF he then should equally be capable of calling it all off. Is the extra $70 scaring him off?
Popping to $100 is only $45 more, a tempting but incorrect call for overs hoping to see a check on turn. This villain might (probably not) shove.
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10-26-2013 , 08:44 PM
I feel slightly better about my play, being that no one really said fold, and the debate was mainly how much to raise.

When he didn't snap call I felt like I had the best hand. Then he went into a speech "well big fella, I don't do this often..." He then folded his aces face up.

Now, to be honest, I didn't like my play the moment I shoved, the dry board, what hands am I beating, etc. I REALLY hated it after he showed, only because the though of shoving to get him to fold a better hand was nowhere near my thought process.

Thanks for the input.
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10-28-2013 , 12:11 PM
We're playing fairly short and have a big hand. This is an easy raise to $20 preflop so we setup a great SPR and a brain dead stack off situation postflop on non scary boards.

Even with our too-small raise, we've still setup a situation where we've got an overpair in a HU pot with an SPR around 4. We're committed, imo. Board is fairly dry, so I'm ok with getting it in over 3 streets, but I usually tend to try to get in by the turn, so I'd just donk the pot on the flop so I can shove the turn.

As played, we're in a little tricky spot simply because this villain has a history of folding big hands to us, so a shove on the flop might do that (ETA: And I mean big hands that we beat like Tx, not big hands that are beating us like AA, lol!). But then again, if we call the flop, that still might be the last money Villain puts in with a worse hand. Still, the flop ain't drawy (really just 98), so I'd probably flat the raise. If Villain is aggro as you make him out to be, I'd probably try to let him hang himself on the turn and check/shove. I'm never considering folding due to SPR / board / villain.

ETA: *If* we're going to 3bet the flop, the only bet size is a shove with these stacks, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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