V and BB are regs, dont know much more. 500~$ stacks.

Hand folds to V on HJ. Opens to 10$

Im on SB with Qs9s and call (i would usually 3bet this if im going to play it)
BB calls.

Flop: 4h8h9c

Checks to V who bets 16$
i call ( i think i should raise, esp when he bets 1/2 pot)
BB calls

Turn: 4h8h9cQd

i donk 50$
BB folds
V raises to 140$
I fold.

urgh

Pre is whatever. I prefer fold/3bet, but it's not the worst hand to complete with here. I think donking or c/c flop are fine. c/raising is unwarranted. We're likely to fold out all we beat and we have strong showdown value. The turn is confusing. Would V really only have JT/sets here?

On the turn, I think there's quite a few hands like overpairs or QhXh in range that could make this play that we're ahead of so I'm calling turn and evaluating river.

yeah 3bet or fold pre. probably just fold from the SB.

flop call is ok. raising ok too.

call me crazy but i like your fold on the turn.

I guess u guys are right but since im a mirroring weak nit postflop i had a hard time putting him on worst for value althought maybe he does have few semibluffs.

But even then if we call ott we are capping ourselfs rather obviously and we hate ever river but a 9 or a Q.

I’d normally fold this hand pre vs a HJ open. Let’s say the open was from the CO or BTN instead. In that case you would normally want to 3b the majority of hands you play from the SB. Against a good V that is opening wide from the CO or BTN it’s OK to just flat some of your hands in the SB as he can put you in a difficult position by 4b you light. Against a bad V that opens from the CO or BTN and will never 4b bluff you I prefer to 3b from the SB if I’m going to play the hand. One problem in this hand is that you also have to worry about the reg in the BB that can 3b squeeze you if you just flat from the SB. Therefore, even if V would have opened from the CO or BTN I would have folded this hand as it’s at the bottom of your SB calling range and you also have to worry about getting 3b squeezed by the reg in the BB.

Yeah.. I was card dead for the whole session and folding a shiny Qs9s felt like murder

Preflop is pretty opponent dependent. How good a reg is the raising Villain? The better he is, the less chance I'm going to make any money on this hand, especially OOP, especially without initiative, especially in a raked game. One argument for calling is that we are very deep, although some parts of our hand (i.e. the flush draw) have high RIO if a competent Villain is willing to get in huge stacks postflop with us when we hit. For this price, I can't hate too much on preflop (I'm also assuming we're not playing fit/fold postflop), but at the same time I'm not convinced it's profitable.

I'm cool with just calling the flop. We have a mediocre hand OOP; we're not looking to build a big pot, and raising does that. I just call and see what happens.

One of the main draws got there (JT, with the old saying that in a multiway pot someone *always* has JT). I don't love bet/folding a hand that can improve to a monster. So I might actually just check the turn and see what happens.

I'm actually cool with the fold as played. I just think in general we're better off not getting blown off our draw in a big pot and more working towards getting to the river.

GcluelessNLnoobG

One of the most common traits in most reggish players is MUBSyness. So when one of the most obvious draws get there (anyone who has played more than 10 hours in a casino can see JT just got there and it's always possible someone flopped a set), most MUBSy regs don't go nuts by raising big streets with ~one pear.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I think this is AA or KK pretty often. Never folding ott. I'd call and probably check call the river. We almost always have 4 outs if we are behind, which helps quite a bit

Really?

They open to a tiny $10 in a 1/3 NL game? (and since it's folded to the HJ I'm assuming the villain's preflop range is pretty wide)

They bet 1/2 PSB on a drawy board?

Then they go nuts when an obvious draw gets there 3ways and a guy donks into 2 opponents?

Might just be me, but I expect to run into AA/KK almost never here. Most people play AA/KK to not go broke, not to eke out a smidge more value in very thin places, no?

GcluelessNLnoobG

This is why (like I think you're suggesting) I'm not leading turn.

But we have such a vulnerable hand.. I hate giving BB this good of a price while also letting V realise free equity with his b/f hands (betting 1/2 pot here looks very fishy to me). We can get called by worst but i can see how getting called here will bring some very ugly spots on latter streets OOP.

A lot of NL is a balancing act between (a) protecting our hand if it is good versus (b) not building too big a pot if it isn't good. Yeah, it's vulnerable, agreed. But we're not necessarily ahead here, and building a big pot with a weakish hand is more of mistake that perhaps letting him hit a ~2-6 outer or whatever weakish draw he may be on.

Gimo;noteveryonewillagreewiththatG

This is how id argue it:

Call(vs raise):
+ We keep the pot small with a "weak" hand oop.
+? We dont let V push us out with a rr.
- We make it easier for BB to call or semibluff.
- Our hand is very vulerable and we only have 1 clean out to improve.
- We will cap our range.
- Can't immediately win the pot.