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1/3 i does a 4b

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03-24-2016 , 09:56 PM

#26

de4df1sh

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Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 6,893

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianNit

Are they limp-calling you with a range that includes AK-AT?

Its possible, but this is not a raise for value

Quote

03-24-2016 , 10:02 PM

#27

de4df1sh

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Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 6,893

Is it not bad to just let the btn prevent us from isolating the fit/foldies wide?

Quote

03-24-2016 , 10:06 PM

#28

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by de4df1sh

Its possible, but this is not a raise for value

Well it's obviously not a preflop attempt to take down the pot right there since you should assume getting multiple callers with stronger-than-average ranges, so it must be an attempt to build a bigger pot that you can take away from multiple callers with stronger-than-average ranges when they all miss.

Quote

03-24-2016 , 10:07 PM

#29

Snowball2

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Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 8,640

Sounds like you got coached by a higher-stakes player for this spot. Why bother posting it in llsnl where most of the responses are going to be overlimp pre or fold to 3b?

Quote

03-24-2016 , 10:09 PM

#30

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by de4df1sh

Is it not bad to just let the btn prevent us from isolating the fit/foldies wide?

That's one of the benefits of position. He has you at an inherent disadvantage. Sometimes, that means you need to iso less.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 02:52 AM

#31

wj94

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A4s is a great hand to play against some fish. Some of you are so nitty that it hurts my brain. JFC.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 07:32 AM

#32

Playbig2000

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Quote:

Originally Posted by timmay28

if i raised pre I'm just flatting the min 3bet; villain doesn't sound like the type you have fold equity with and your hand blows in inflated pots oop

Flatting the 3b oop is the worst option. It leaves him totally in control of the hand.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 08:34 AM

#33

trucdouf

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 2,216

Quote:

Originally Posted by de4df1sh

My thoughts are that i block alot of his value 3b range. AA/AK maybe AQ and do not block any of suited connector hands. He has shown a slight proclivity to 3b super wide from btn for a small sizing.

does anyone flat here? my problem with flatting is that it is going to be really difficult to station down oop.

His value 3b range is wider and should also include 22+ which we don't really block much of.

That being said I'm not a fan of 4b/f with yeah l trash.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 02:19 PM

#34

johnnyBuz

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I think we need to figure out which range he could 5bet jam that leaves us with >38% equity. I'm not a fan of 4bet/folding if he is capable of jamming hands like JTs. This is getting into the realm of online leveling which doesn't take place much live. I'm starting to believe that leveling is just a way you get yourself in trouble. Every time I think I am in a leveling war the guy just ends up having the premium hand I should have expected him to have. Interesting spot though.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 02:22 PM

#35

de4df1sh

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

its not so much a leveling war as it is that he is 3b too wide and unbalanced and should be willing to incorrectly fold alot of hands to a 4b

Quote

03-25-2016 , 02:27 PM

#36

johnnyBuz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by de4df1sh

its not so much a leveling war as it is that he is 3b too wide and unbalanced and should be willing to incorrectly fold alot of hands to a 4b

You haven't 4bet him yet (presumably) so you can't be sure how he is going to respond. I like the 4bet in isolation but he could have just been clicking buttons with the 76s 3bet before.

And what do you mean incorrectly fold? Are you saying he should continue with his SC's to your 4bet with such shallow stacks?

Quote

03-25-2016 , 02:38 PM

#37

de4df1sh

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

Well yeah, if he has a hand like +56 or a small to mid PP he should continue against my specific hand

Quote

03-25-2016 , 02:48 PM

#38

philepistemer

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 554

Quote:

Originally Posted by trucdouf

His value 3b range is wider and should also include 22+ which we don't really block much of.

That being said I'm not a fan of 4b/f with yeah l trash.

Against somewhat balanced players you need a 4 bet/folding range. It would be a disaster to 4/bet fold AK or JJ, but A4s is the perfect type of hand to 4 bet/fold.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 04:35 PM

#39

sw_emigre

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,671

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

A4s is a great hand to play against some fish. Some of you are so nitty that it hurts my brain. JFC.

Except as played we didn't get to play against some fish. They swam away, and now we are OOP vs a PITA.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 04:42 PM

#40

erpdlof

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 241

Quote:

Originally Posted by philepistemer

Against somewhat balanced players you need a 4 bet/folding range. It would be a disaster to 4/bet fold AK or JJ, but A4s is the perfect type of hand to 4 bet/fold.

it's live 1/3

Quote

03-25-2016 , 05:14 PM

#41

wj94

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sw_emigre

Except as played we didn't get to play against some fish. They swam away, and now we are OOP vs a PITA.

Well that was certainly guaranteed to happen. Might as well just fold everything cuz someone else wants to play the pokah

Quote

03-25-2016 , 05:30 PM

#42

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,514

Quote:

Originally Posted by de4df1sh

How are we supposed to defend against an aggro btn 3b?

Grunch (of this question, not whole thread): "Dealer, can I have a seat change button, please?"

If your position is otherwise too valuable to give up, just let him have it most of the time that happens. There's too much value in donk stacking to get in to leveling wars OOP, imo.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 05:37 PM

#43

WereBeer

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Tight passive guys limp with hands like AJ IME, which makes raising preflop bad.

I don't think our read on this guy likely being FOS with this 3! is that great. We know he did one light 3!, that was 2 hours ago. No other 3bets at all? Sounds to me like one of those guys that gets bored and mixes it up but mostly plays pretty standard. I want more info before going for the 4 bet.

4 bet/fold is clearly better than flatting though. If he is FOS, and our image is such that he gives us credit for a hand here, he should fold pretty easy. I would make it $85, I think he folds as easy as he does for $95 and we save $10 when this fails.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 06:21 PM

#44

trucdouf

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 2,216

Quote:

Originally Posted by philepistemer

Against somewhat balanced players you need a 4 bet/folding range. It would be a disaster to 4/bet fold AK or JJ, but A4s is the perfect type of hand to 4 bet/fold.

I'm willing to take this as a leak. I have a range, but A4 doesn't come close.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 06:24 PM

#45

de4df1sh

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Quote:

Originally Posted by trucdouf

I'm willing to take this as a leak. I have a range, but A4 doesn't come close.

What could be a better candidate to put into a 4b/f range then a hand like this?

Quote

03-25-2016 , 06:29 PM

#46

BenT07891

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,641

Ace rag suited are great for 3-bet and 4-bet bluffing ranges, as are small pocket pairs and medium suited connectors.

Your line is fine. When you 4-bet here, you want to have one of the hands listed above around 50% of the time. If you are against someone with too strong of a 3-betting range pre, adjust that down. Against someone who folds to often to a 3-bet, adjust up.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 08:14 PM

#47

suited fours

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,143

I like how you played it and I like your sizing at 95 to get the desired fold. Since this is a fine limp behind hand, I'd also be tempted to l/rr this villain.

I'm also good with a seat change, depending on lineup.

Quote

03-25-2016 , 09:24 PM

#48

sw_emigre

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,671

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

Well thatac was certainly guaranteed to happen. Might as well just fold everything cuz someone else wants to play the pokah

Actually it was close to 100% predictable. Fish aren't going to call a 3! and get squeezed. If you want to 3 with this hand go ahead, but your first post said we want to play w fish w this hand. And our line here guaranteed that wouldn't happen.