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1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? 1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high?

11-19-2015 , 05:56 AM
Live 1/3 full ring $200 max bi

Hero(CO): tag image. perceived as thinking player. young asian. ~ 450
Vil (SB): lag. runs spewy bluffs with air. limp jammed 33 pre. playing roughly 50/15 young asian ~ 400

Pre ($4)
2 limpers. hero w/ AJ makes it $16. V calls.

Flop ($41)
T63
V checks. Hero cbets $25. since V range was so wide, he had a pretty high fold to cbet percentage. V calls.

Turn ($91)
2
V donks bets $80 fairly quickly. I simply couldn't put V on a value hand here. Additionally, it is fairly plausible that he'd do this with a draw. I thought this one was of his spewy bluffs.

River ($251)
K
V insta jams for $279. hero??? given this is live and that most people (including V) arent really aware of pot sizes, this and the turn donk seem like huge overbets. I couldnt give him any value hands in his range and he definitely is not capable of range merging. can this call be profitable? is this line very often air/busted draws?
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 06:19 AM
If the 2nd number is 15 I wouldn't call him aggressive.

This is a good illustration of things to avoid in order to beat $1/3.

This is also not going to get any good suggestions. Common spots lead to a good discussion, this is rare and nobody can have a better idea of what this guy is doing than you, so I don't know what you're looking for.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 06:20 AM
I fold the river. You have a one card blocker to both Front door and Back door FD, which eliminates a good chunk of the draws available. Some of those busted draws are pairs that he might have haphazardly turned into a bluff, the flush draws that are both no pair and not AQ are few and far between. He could have also made a weird bluff with something like 44/55 of which you still can't beat.

Of the value hands, he can have T2/62/32, KX or KX, even some KXo which you probably don't have enough data points to rule that line out.

Some nonzero% of the time, he can show up with 22/33/66/TT/AK/54. The busted flush draw no pair is just such a miniscule portion of the described range.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 07:32 AM
I really dont know what you are looking for here, some sick soul read hero call.

pre and cbet seem ok, turn is where it really throws me off .
calling off a near PSB with no draw just naked 2 overs seems very spewy to me,yeah this guy could be repping some draw but he might have some kinda pair+draw as well.
the river shove while huge is a little over PSB so isnt that crazy, I just dont think that these calls are going to be good overall.
If this guy is playing like this there will be a lot better spots to pick to get this guys cash,this is not 1 of them.
The worst part is if you call and he is good, is watching him punt of your chips to some other decent player at the table
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
If the 2nd number is 15 I wouldn't call him aggressive.

This is a good illustration of things to avoid in order to beat $1/3.

This is also not going to get any good suggestions. Common spots lead to a good discussion, this is rare and nobody can have a better idea of what this guy is doing than you, so I don't know what you're looking for.
^^^This.

As said above, 50/15 isn't a LAG and certainly not an aggrotard. So either your number is wrong or your description is wrong. As such, it becomes difficult to advise you on anything since we don't know what you got wrong.

I can see him with lots of value hands on the turn, mainly sets. Someone with a set would play this hand exactly this way. FWIW, a pair of 4s is a value hand because all you have is ace high.

It is very easy in LLSNL to start thinking that people are playing back at you. They aren't. Whatever he has, the vast majority of his range beats you. You should have folded at the turn and certainly should at the river in most cases.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 08:03 AM
You should never cbet with air against this kind of V, especially on this kind of board where he really easily has a piece that he wont fold, while you are drawing to 6 outs. You want to call light against "air bluffers", but not to the extent that you try to win a 200+bb pot with A high.

Last edited by Kebabkungen; 11-19-2015 at 08:17 AM.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 08:56 AM
45 got there on the turn, but sure, there are all kinds of busted draws that makes A high good against V by the river.

In this situation, would I call 279 with ace high, getting about 2:1? meh. probably not. Even though the K looks like a total brick.

as played, fold.

on the turn, I would have instamucked against V. or maybe turned my hand into a bluff and shoved over the top. but I hate calling. If we don't bink the river with one of our 6 outs, we are pretty much committing ourselves to call all rivers that are not a spade.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 09:10 AM
fold turn & fold river. This villain should give you plenty of better spots to stack him than this.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
45 got there on the turn, but sure, there are all kinds of busted draws that makes A high good against V by the river.

In this situation, would I call 279 with ace high, getting about 2:1? meh. probably not. Even though the K looks like a total brick.

as played, fold.

on the turn, I would have instamucked against V. or maybe turned my hand into a bluff and shoved over the top. but I hate calling. If we don't bink the river with one of our 6 outs, we are pretty much committing ourselves to call all rivers that are not a spade.
Agree with this, c/c, donk turn by recs (even aggro ones) is a strong line. Would never ship as a bluff versus this guy thought, he might fold second pair but he is never folding a T. His range is somewhat strong too because he apparently folds a lot to cbet.

We need reads on his bluffs too, timing tells, sizing tells, physical reads, you need everything you can to call this with ace high. Even if you are sure he is weak what if he has 33 and is button clicking? Not worth it imo
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 12:13 PM
Against aggro bluffy players I'm much less likely to cbet the flop, as we'll have to fold to a check/raise with only A high (no?) and obviously we'll feel uncomfortable doing that.

On the turn we have no pair / no draw. We raised preflop and continued on the flop, indicating the possibility of having a made hand here. If he's bluffing the turn, he's probably going to continue thru with that plan on the river, where we'll then have to contemplate playing for a huge pot with just A high. I fold the turn.

Even though I don't get to the river, I also fold here basically because he has a lotta bluffs in his range that actually beat us (small pairs, etc.).

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 01:41 PM
Bad opponent and bad flop to cbet. If V plays 50% of hands, he's probably more stationy and will call most flops. If he's also bluffy, V will accurately think you missed the flop and you give him a chance to knock you out of the hand with a raise. The point is you have little FE on your cbet and you're certainly not making the cbet for value. Check the flop.

$80 into a $90 is a huge donk bet. His bet sizing should tell you he's ready to play for stacks. The pot size compared to eff. stacks on the turn means you don't really have any room to maneuver with a bluff raise (assuming V is bluffing, which he's probably not). Fold turn. Fold river.

Just because you view a villain as spewy doesn't mean you get to win every pot against him. Choose your battles and realize when you don't have the advantage.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
As said above, 50/15 isn't a LAG and certainly not an aggrotard. So either your number is wrong or your description is wrong.
V played preflop fairly passively. He called raises IP w/ QQ, and was caught limp calling AQ. Post flop though he was a pretty huge agrotard. He ran some pretty crazy bluffs, then showed.

For Example: he called raise from blinds w/ K6o HU. on the 774K4 board, he c/c flop, c/c turn, and donk jammed river. (both players 100BB+ deep).

He limp called a raise from MP w/ 44 in multiway pot. he then donk jammed into a 982r flop. We only got to see the hand because he binked a 4 on the river.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nihcnahtan
V played preflop fairly passively. He called raises IP w/ QQ, and was caught limp calling AQ. Post flop though he was a pretty huge agrotard. He ran some pretty crazy bluffs, then showed.

For Example: he called raise from blinds w/ K6o HU. on the 774K4 board, he c/c flop, c/c turn, and donk jammed river. (both players 100BB+ deep).

He limp called a raise from MP w/ 44 in multiway pot. he then donk jammed into a 982r flop. We only got to see the hand because he binked a 4 on the river.
Both times he had ace high beat so even if he goes crazy aj is in bad shape
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 10:41 PM
Only read one response and I'm quickly folding the turn.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 10:58 PM
The turn seems very valuey, and I'm guessing the deuce helped him and he's aware that we're gonna think it's very unlikely the deuce helped him. I'd consider that 54 alone is 16 combos, and then add on various T2-type two pairs and 2xss type hands, and this story makes a lot more sense then you're inclined to give him credit for.

I also wouldn't flat the turn without an idea of what to do with the rest of our stack on a total blank. I'd assume that we flatted the turn because we figured villain would play exploitably faceup on the river, either bluffing too much on whiffed rivers or letting us get off cheap. Otherwise, you're better off range merge raising the turn.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-19-2015 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
As said above, 50/15 isn't a LAG and certainly not an aggrotard. So either your number is wrong or your description is wrong. As such, it becomes difficult to advise you on anything since we don't know what you got wrong.
A 15 PFR is very high for a full ring game. Also, aggrotard likely refers to his postflop game, so if he's running a bunch of spewy bluffs and such while playing 50% of hands, then he is certainly all of loose, aggressive and ******ed.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-23-2015 , 04:47 AM
Thanks for the feedback.

Hero tank folds river. V shows K7.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote
11-23-2015 , 05:51 AM
When players donkbet turns it's usually because they picked up some significant equity. I'd put him on something like T2s or maybe even 22 or 64. Remember, every opponent is going to have a hard time believing you really hit this flop and for good reason, we cbet it for the same reason they are suspicious. I dont think anyone ever bluffs like this though so I just let it go with only Ace high at this point. His bet sizing and the pot size are just not good enough to warrant a hero call.
1/3 hero calling a 50/15 argotard with ace high? Quote

      
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