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1/3 - Getting loose in EP 1/3 - Getting loose in EP

11-22-2018 , 02:56 AM
10 handed 1/3

Hero has been card dead and tight all day when this hand comes up.
V1 is 30s WG, been at table 1-2 hours, tight, seems very serious and competent.

H stack ~ $400
V1 stack ~ 300

H picks up QJss utg+2. Opens $15
V1 (SB) - calls

Flop ($30) - AcJh2s
V1 check
H - bet $20, V1 calls

Turn ($70) - As
V1 check
H - I figured chances are he doesn't have an A since he checked twice (esp on flop). I thought a bet could fold out any Jx or other pp's. Plus I pick up the flush draw. I think I check behind w/o the flush draw. Bet $40.
V1 calls

River ($150) - 7h

Keep bluffing/blasting away or check behind with some showdown value/give up?

Thoughts on turn and river much appreciated.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-22-2018 , 03:41 AM
QJs EP open is loose?

I prefer checking behind turn with plans to call most rivers (or raise flush obv) or betting most rivers if checked to. By betting again on the turn, a very large % of the hands that call you are Ax so you are essentially turning your hand into a bluff (not sure of your reasoning why he can't have Ax here, seems pretty standard to call preflop, x/c flop, x turn when oop).

As played, check behind river. Very unlikely any worse hands are calling, especially from a villain described as tight and competent.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-22-2018 , 04:10 AM
Villain can easily have some Ax hands, plenty of people will just flat all suited aces and AT AJ maybe AQ here preflop and then x/c flop and turn. I'd raise turn with AJ/AQ FWIW.

AP I just check back, not much worse hands ever call here.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-22-2018 , 04:30 AM
Check the flop
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-22-2018 , 05:10 AM
Betting the flop is ok (if you want to exploitatively bet your whole range for a small sizing) but I hate your sizing. This hand wants to bet 1/3 or smaller, or check the flop.

Your turn bet is horrible as played. After you bet 2/3 pot otf his calling range otf is going to be mostly Ax. Also why are we betting? We don't deny much equity and if we're called we're often crushed with little to no opportunity or need to bluff rivers. We aren't getting called on the turn by JTs/J9s.

As played river easy check but your main mistakes are flop sizing (and betting flop at all) and betting this turn.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-22-2018 , 06:28 AM
Turn is brilliant to check behind.
We have showdown value as it is, picked up a nice draw, and will seldom be called by worse and gives Villain a chance to stab at the river or if checked to we could consider betting for value.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-22-2018 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman
Betting the flop is ok (if you want to exploitatively bet your whole range for a small sizing) but I hate your sizing. This hand wants to bet 1/3 or smaller, or check the flop.

Your turn bet is horrible as played. After you bet 2/3 pot otf his calling range otf is going to be mostly Ax. Also why are we betting? We don't deny much equity and if we're called we're often crushed with little to no opportunity or need to bluff rivers. We aren't getting called on the turn by JTs/J9s.

As played river easy check but your main mistakes are flop sizing (and betting flop at all) and betting this turn.
Why we betting $10 on flop?

We hit this board hard. $15-20 with our value hands and our bluffs. They have an ace less than 25% of time. So c betting majority of range is appropriate here.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-22-2018 , 11:26 AM
Turn is pretty bad. Why are we bluffing this hand? Also villain can credibly have a hand like AQo and just flat seeing what position you raised from, see he has two aces now and try to go for a value raise to get called down by worse aces. Or he could have AJ in the same vein and you're toast. Either way, this hand hates being check raised because there's no good way to proceed.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-22-2018 , 12:01 PM
I'd check flop mostly because a tight preflop caller is going to be set mining a lot of the time and otherwise has suited-Broadway, SC and AQo-AJo KQo. This means you betting flop mostly folds out worse and gets called by better. If you check flop villain may more easily pay you off for a street or two with weaker JX or lower pairs or pick up a draw on turn he can call with.

I'd be checking flop with my weaker AX and KK/QQ for same reasons. TT- I'd check hoping to check it down. I might turn my lowest pocket pairs into bluffs on the flop though.

I'd bet flop with AQ+ and appropriate bluffs with no showdown: BWs with BDFD and/or gutshot and maybe KQo occasionally depends how foldy villain is.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-22-2018 , 12:37 PM
Your table plays different than mine if an EP raise somehow gets this HU in position (a terrific result, which would also be totally unexpected at my table). I actually open fold now (admittedly tight but I think mostly correct). I'm also not in love with our postflop play at all, so I'd advise against building big pots in EP with marginal holdings.

We're pretty much WA/WB on the flop as there is only one scary overcard that can outdraw us and it's a pretty drawless board other than some gutshots. I would typically check this back. If we had JT I might lean more towards a bet as now there would be just that many overcards that could kill us.

I have no idea what our thinking is on the turn. He could still very easily have an Ace (it's exactly how I'd play one) and he's never folding it. We have the second best kicker with our J so unless we think we're up against exactly KJ we're not really looking to fold out any Js or any other pocket pairs which we are a *massive* favourite against. And I think we have it backwards as to whether we have the flush draw or not; getting blown off the flush draw is a massive mistake so better to check it behind, whereas there is no drawback to be getting blown off a non-flush draw (even though I still wouldn't bet it). Super easy check behind, imo.

As played, river is all about whether we think we have a thin river bet or not. I mostly think it's a check behind because our villain is competent and he sees us as card dead going for multiple streets of value; I think he's unlikely to pay off with worse. If we hadda checked behind some streets we have a much easier check behind showdown value, but given he's called us down I think there might actually be some merit to attempting to get him off AQ/AT, but I still just lean to taking my showdown value here.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-23-2018 , 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
Why we betting $10 on flop?

We hit this board hard. $15-20 with our value hands and our bluffs. They have an ace less than 25% of time. So c betting majority of range is appropriate here.
We hit this board hard? Second pair medium kicker?

Please explain your viewpoint, Mikko.

Usually you are on point but this is not hitting the board hard IMO.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-23-2018 , 04:11 AM
^ I think Mikko means our range hits this board hard rather than this specific hand hit hard.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-23-2018 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozsr
We hit this board hard? Second pair medium kicker?

Please explain your viewpoint, Mikko.

Usually you are on point but this is not hitting the board hard IMO.
Correct, our range hits board hard. (Not our hand, sorry for confusion)

I don't want to be betting small when we miss, and larger when we are strong. So since I normally hit this board hard. I am betting standard half pot to 65% pot, with my betting range.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
11-23-2018 , 01:11 PM
flop bet is good

turn bet is bad, as said before can't fold better and can't get called by worse.

As played check river and hope for a check back. Against described villain probably folding to river bet.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
01-18-2019 , 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
I don't want to be betting small when we miss, and larger when we are strong. So since I normally hit this board hard. I am betting standard half pot to 65% pot, with my betting range.
The majority of Vs continuing range is Ax and Jx, but since we're blocking much of the latter we can discount those holdings somewhat. A small bet on the flop accomplishes folding out hands that have good equity against us (KQ, KT, QT) the same as a large bet does, but with a small bet, the pot doesn't grow large vs. a V continuing range that has us in bad shape.

On the flip side, with the stronger hands in my range (AA, JJ, AJ, AK, AQ) I'm also wanting to bet small, keeping in Vs weaker Ax and Jx hands.

I agree with Jarretman that this flop is generally a 1/3 psb with the majority of our range. Hate a larger sizing on the flop.

Turn I like a check-back. Unless we're targeting exactly KJ, V is never folding better here, and JT isn't calling. Check turn and bluffcatch river possibly (or raise flush).
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
01-19-2019 , 04:37 PM
I'm more of an online player, but do we really think trying to get 3 streets here is a good idea? One for sure probably 2 make the most sense for me. If we bet flop and bet turn, are we really getting called by worse on the river? I like the B/B/X line better than B/X/B.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
01-19-2019 , 11:09 PM
Why would we be trying to make a Jack or a pocket pair fold when we have the second best Jack plus the redraw for when villain has the Ace?

Check and evaluate river.

Can't remember my old account info, welcome back me.
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote
01-20-2019 , 09:38 PM
check back turn and consider going for value on the river if he checks to you

AP def check back the river
1/3 - Getting loose in EP Quote

      
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