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Old 01-06-2014, 04:56 AM   #1
whatisthis3
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1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

I was wondering what the correct way to play a straight flush draw is? 9 handed.

Is it better to semi-bluff or call?

Button Hero: $800
MP V1: $400
UTG+2 V2: $150
Button Hero: K9

Reads:
V2 is middle aged asian lady, plays very loose passive
V1 is middle aged asian man, plays loose aggressive.
Hero has LAG image.

Pre-flop:
V2 limps
V1 makes it $22
Hero calls
V2 calls

I call because V1 is lag and has been open raising pretty crazily. We also have position.

Flop ($66):
1084
V2 checks
V1 bets $45
Hero calls
V2 calls.

I called because I believed that villain will C-bet a majority of his hands regardless of the result.

Turn ($201):
10847

V2 checks
V1 bets $145
Hero????

I realize that villain probably has an over pair here or a set. My question is what is the most profitable move for me to make here? Should i semi-bluff? Should I chase? Should I fold? I think I'm getting the correct odds to at least call here.

Last edited by whatisthis3; 01-06-2014 at 05:25 AM.
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:25 AM   #2
_AsTrA_
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

meh, fold pre with a trouble hand like this
Now, you got yourself into a pretty ugly spot.
Does V2 look like he wants to fold/push/call?
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:04 AM   #3
adammatthew21
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

Not sure I call pre-flop with such a marginal hand but regardless, let's refer to the odds here.

1 card to go and 17 outs, 20 if you think the King wins it for you which is prob doubtful here. 17/30 so you have a better than 50% chance of hitting the river.

You need to put in $145 into a pot of $350. Don't see how you cannot at least call there. The odds are right and unless he has AsXs, you could even be favored.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:41 AM   #4
_AsTrA_
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

Quote:
Originally Posted by adammatthew21 View Post
Not sure I call pre-flop with such a marginal hand but regardless, let's refer to the odds here.

1 card to go and 17 outs, 20 if you think the King wins it for you which is prob doubtful here. 17/30 so you have a better than 50% chance of hitting the river.

You need to put in $145 into a pot of $350. Don't see how you cannot at least call there. The odds are right and unless he has AsXs, you could even be favored.
Your math is off here, 17 outs give you a 37% chance of hitting the river. In situations like this, I always discount a few outs to make it more realistic - in this case the 7 and 10 for example. All other s give you RIOs, another problem with a hand like K9s
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:28 AM   #5
adammatthew21
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

Wow..apologies on that and thanks for pointing out. Was getting yelled at from boss as I was typing and appreciate you for correcting that.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:36 AM   #6
trucdouf
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Please fold pre for 22.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:38 AM   #7
m_hood115
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Fold or 3bet pre. This is a terrible hand to call with. Great hand and spot to 3bet though.

Calling pre is a massive leak.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:46 AM   #8
Dubey
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

definitely fold pre. k9 is just a terrible hand to play in a raised pot.

Turn is close between a call and a fold. You need direct odds of about 3-1, and you are only getting 2.4-1. The problem is, 2 of your flush outs may result in you stacking off with the worst hand. All of your straight outs put 4 to a straight on board and may kill your action.

meh, I think the potential RIO make this a fold, but calling isn't awful either, if you think Villain will pay you off on the river some of the time.
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Old 01-06-2014, 01:40 PM   #9
gobbledygeek
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

I would fold preflop. Ya, we're only calling off ~5% of our stack preflop, and we'll be in position, but I don't think this makes up for the fact that this might go HU and K9s is a crap hand.

I would also just call the flop bet. We're getting okish odds to draw, will be in position on the turn (which will help in our decision making plus make it easier to get paid off if we hit), plus we have an over plus a backdoor that might materialize.

If we think Villain has an overpair or set here, then obviously we shouldn't semi-bluff cuz that simply ain't going to work (i.e. we should have little FE against overpairs and obviously 0 FE against sets). Even though this villain is aggy, he's still betting a 3rd street in a row after 2 players called his flop bet; I think we have 0 FE here.

We're getting about the necessary immediate odds to hit chase our draw (plus other villain might pad the pot behind us and she's short and can't reopen the betting). Even though hitting our outs will put out a scary board, it's unlikely villain will be able to manage a fold after putting in so much of his stack. So I call.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:15 AM   #10
whatisthis3
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

Results:

I called. V2 calls remaining stack.
Effective stack sizes now ~$212

(~570) River: 2

Hero?
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:13 AM   #11
a12
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisthis3 View Post
Results:

I called. V2 calls remaining stack.
Effective stack sizes now ~$212

(~570) River: 2

Hero?
What has V1 done?
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:00 AM   #12
whatisthis3
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

Oh my bad.

V1 checks.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:30 AM   #13
a12
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

Bet 160.
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Old 01-07-2014, 12:06 PM   #14
gobbledygeek
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisthis3 View Post
Results:

I called. V2 calls remaining stack.
Effective stack sizes now ~$212

(~570) River: 2

Hero?
Villain has less than 1/2 PSB. He's either calling a big bet or not. So a very simple shove.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 01-07-2014, 12:20 PM   #15
answer20
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Re: 1/3 flush draw to straight flush draw

Dont mind a call on B every once in a while ... But you know what Doyle B says about K9 right? Else by his book ...

Call Flop .. what else would you do here with 'no' hand? Possibly semi-bluff with nut flush draw, not 2nd nut draw.

Call Turn .. you dont want to do anything to discourage the other V from calling and shoving/raising might do that. It helps your odds to keep the pot multi-way. You also get these chips in case you don't get called on River if you hit.

River is a shove in most cases, especially if they might think you are bluffing here. Against a lot of regs I would only put out $125 to $150 to get the courtesy call. I have even put out as little as $60 against some regs as a flush bluff and gotten away with it. But there is really nothing in the side pot to bluff at in this hand. GL
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:57 PM   #16
Bill Hickok
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15 outs.you double counted spades that make the straight. This isn't a straight flush draw.it's a straight and flush draw.big difference.

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Old 01-07-2014, 01:59 PM   #17
Bill Hickok
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And if you think he has a set you have two less outs than that.even worse , you might get stacked on those two spades

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