1. Having now gotten to this point...If you call the raise of $225 (390 - 165) you're getting 3:1 plus V's last $300 to improve to FH (over V's possible straight?...if V has AA, A8, or A9, then you just take the pie to the face on the river). there would $900 in the pot...

2. What card comes on the river that makes you check fold when you're getting, say 4:1 (900 + V's last $300). Even if the T or 5 rolls off I think it's pretty hard to fold still.

3. If V's best worst hand is J-T, then he's getting 4:1 on your shove with a 13-out scenario which you can't do anything about.

4. Getting it all when you're most likely good and even if behind, still getting the right odds for improvement is all you can really ask for.

Amen to everything browni says, but GG has proven time and again that he is flat-out incapable of listening to any sort of reason. He will undoubtedly continue to pollute every thread with his nonsense and will continue to respond with even more and bigger nonsense to everyone calling him out on it. At this point I think just simply ignoring him would be the best approach, although I honestly feel his posts start to border on spam, that's how far off they are from anything remotely resembling good advice.

Another +1.

Also, GG just because you "typically" do something, doesent mean its good advice or a solid strategy approach.

Overbombing the turn with a raise to like 250 like you suggests is just laughable, because it comes from fear of playing multistreet poker- and you are obviously scared to see rivers deepstacked if certain scarecards comes: and the fear is based on that you dont know what to do if you dont have your wheelchair comfortable SPR/stack commitment threshold to save you from the situation.

If you choose such absurd sizing with our turnraise we are potenially losing tons of value- we are simply narrowing down the continuerange of our villain too much as a consequence of our ridic sizing. Like we may very well force him to fold hands that are drawing dead to us (because we are telling him flat out with our sizing that this pot is gonna be played for stacks), wich of course is a complete disaster. We would like villain to continue in this hand with basically his entire bettingrange on the turn.

If we wanted to try and play for stacks realistically here,we missed that chance by not raising the flop. Now we have to try and maximize our win in the hand (not neccesarily aim to get it all), by raising the turn to an amount that villain can call with big parts of his range so we can get a nice fat riverbet in.

Simple answer that no one gets:

We are 3betting bc it is the easiest way to play the hand

Longer answer:

We should be 3betting most of our continuing range bc it is the best way for our hand/range to realize / over realize equity. Having initiative and having position both realize equity, obv the dream is to have both. When you 3bet pre and have initiative post so many good things happen for you...mainly you win a ton of nsd pots.

Live has some exceptions where pots can go huge multiway so cold calling raises isnt as bad, but just flatting a single open with 99 is way under realizing its value.

Basic example:

When btn raises and you flat 99 in bb flop AT3 and you check fold, his QJ over realized its equity and your 99 under realized its equity.

Really gross spot as played on the turn. A check/raise on the turn is always ~nuttish looking and yet this guy still wants to play for stacks against us? Guy is the best guy at the table, so there's no way he should be overvalueing two pair. Which leaves sets and straights. What does bottom set beat? He's really hoping we're overvalueing two pair at this point? Second bottom set only really beats bottom set. This is a horrendous spot, imo.

BTW, how we all feeling about preflop now?

ETA: After reading spoiler, it's pretty clear this guy ain't that great. He *way* overvalued his hand here.

GcluelessNLnoobG

V's GII range here is much wider than you think (and I don't think he played poorly, although I would not have GII if V's shoes, I'm calling and eval river).

V can have every AA and every 88 combo, which effectively cancel each other out. Are you really insinuating V should not be jamming turn with 88? I don't know where to start with that. He can also still have a gazillion combo draws like JTss, 76ss. Excluding AA (set over set which we can't concern ourselves with), in the worst case scenario he turned a straight and we have ten outs.

Folding turn would be so ludicrous I can't even describe it. And I don't understand what you're asking about preflop now. Hero should've 3! pre, still should've 3! it pre, but folding it pre would still be asinine.

LOL at this being a "gross spot"....this is a once-in-a-session fist-pump GII spot.

Pre is still a mix of 3! and call, but mostly 3! Folding is insane.

FWIW, nobody playing mainly 1/3 is that great of a poker player. Expecting people to play perfectly at this level and adjusting to them accordingly is a big leak. People get married to big flopped hands.

FWIW, I'd label this guy one of the biggest fish in my game if he's looking to get in huge $700 stacks with just two pair facing a check/raise on this turn (which makes continuing preflop much more reasonable).

GcluelessNLnoobG

This is what I come in here and think to myself literally every day. Villain is a fish buuuuut...."There's no way he's overvaluing 2 pair here! He just has it, he has a straight or AA every time, fold."

I said it earlier in the thread but I still like flat with 99 pre vs 3 betting. If we want to build a massive pot vs this guy putting in a c/r on the flop is going to be easy to mix in, which will build the pot very quickly in a similar manner to a 3 bet pre. We just get to see a flop before deciding to play a big pot, rather than getting into tricky spots with 2nd/3rd pair vs a guy who doesn't have to have the goods to fire at us.

Folding 99 pre is crazy imo but truthfully you can still do this and be a winning player.