$1/3
$50-200 buy in

This is my first time playing in this game at this casino. I'm used to $2/5 game with ok players, so I don't know what to expect from these $1/3 players.

Stacks'N'Reads
Table: mostly weak tight with one dude (CO) being a preflop maniac and then a weak tight post flop
SB: $500 - mostly loose passive preflop, post flop weak tight
BB (Hero): $200 - I don't think they are even paying attention, but if they are, I am super tight since I've been card dead since sitting down an hour ago
UTG: $225 - middle aged Asian ghost walker - dude plays his blinds and the button and maybe the CO and then disappears for 10-20 minutes. That he stayed for this entire orbit surprised the table. I had not seen him play a hand to this point.
CO: $200 - young white dude with glasses and earbuds. Raising most hands preflop, then becomes weak tight postflop. Super odd.

Preflop
Hero is the BB with 8 7

UTG calls, folds to CO who raises to $8, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls

UTG limping was a major surprise. This was the first early position hand I had seen him play.

Flop: 9 6 5 (4 players)
Pot: $~30

SB bets $25 - he'd do this with a 9 to try to take down the pot, I don't think he does this with two pair or better (or middle or bottom pair)

Hero sees UTG grabbing chips and decides its better to call and see what UTG does...

Hero calls, UTG calls quickly (his actions made me think flush draw), CO folds

Turn: 8 (3 players)
Pot: $100

SB checks, Hero bets $75, UTG insta-calls, SB insta-folds

River: 4 (2 players)
Pot: $250

Hero checks, UTG grabs his stack, Hero says "I'll only call $5" and UTG shoves anyways, Hero folds

Afterwards I asked UTG if he would have called an all-in on the flop and he said "I had a flush draw, I would've called whatever you bet."
SB asked UTG if he had a 7 and he said "no, just a big nut flush draw".
So now I'm wondering if I should have pushed the turn to maximize EV against $1/3 players and if just calling the flop was the right choice.
FWIW - Had SB checked the flop, I would have bet ~25.

I think not raising flop was a mistake. You could easily get called or jammed on by FDs , combo draws and sets and gets the SPR low enough to jam the turn. I think for flatting to be better you would need to ve reasonably sure CO and UTG both call and that that would get more money in the pot than raising, and I think raising is just a better chance of building the pot. Taking down a $50 pot isn't a bad result either.

AP, I hate your verbal announcement that you're scared. Not to be a jerk, but I can't really imagine that you're a big winner at 2/5 if you do that regularly. On the river, I think you probably committed yourself with the turn bet and should call. You're getting about 3.5:1 and just announced you're scared money and he can buy the pot if he's behind...

To maximize EV with a big hand, how about start with shoveling more money in the pot while your opponents seem to look greedy and ready to cooperate? I mean, OP, seriously, you have a hand that is very strong now but it cannot improve. Pot is already rather large. Why not push your equity, especially when facing a bet? Calling is just ******ed

I find this sort of flopprd hand multi way is more vulnerable than you think to flushes and boats. Raise flop.

I'm always raising flop here. We're multiway on a wet board and can easily get drawn out on by flushes, 2 pairs and sets, however on the board as it currently is, they're all calling a raise. So get manies in now while we are ahead.

If I was in Vs spot, I'd shove river with 7x here. I think it's a possibility that he had that hand. Diamond river is such a great card for him to get you off a chop.

What makes you think I'm scared? I'm trying to get him to talk or show a reaction. I'm ~90% sure he has a flush, so any extra info I can get is worth it to change this from a fold to a call.

Any thought about UTG thinking about me being scared money is giving this entire table waaaaaaay too much credit for thinking at all. I'm trying to adjust my expectations of their capabilities down which is why I now know to raise the flop instead of expecting them to raise a flush draw and just push the turn since they'll call it because "they have a flush draw".

No. You are still thinking about this wrong. The reason to raise flop isn't player dependent it's stack dependent. You're in a spot where a worse hand will never stack off on the river, which means you need to manipulate the pot in such a way that you have stacks in on the turn as best as you can.

I think you're scared because you essentially announced, "if you bet any significant amount I'll fold" and you weren't even being deceptive. You did him a big favor. I think many of the more aggressive of us here would shove on you with our whole range otr, except for flushes which is the one hand you're afraid of.

I didn't realize you were doing this to get information though, and that you knew how to exploit it. So what is UTG going to do when he had a flush and you say this? Wht about his sets? His 7s? What do we do? So he shoves his FDs and that's why you folded?

I think the biggest take away is, once the river came down a diamond you were never going to get paid by worse (that wouldn't have paid you earlier). Meaning if a set is going to call at the river it would have called you earlier same as a fish with 2 pair would have.

AP the turn bet was fine, you got called by what you were targeting, he drew unprofitably against you. (if he truly had a flush draw) You got drawn out- oh well- it happens.

But I think once you did not raise the flop you were forced to play your hand that way. Raising the flop allows people to jam worse on you and you call grinning ear to ear. Or they flat and you jam the non-diamond turn since you set up stacks the way you wanted them.

In short-more times than not- fast playing the nuts maximizes EV.

seems like a good spot to 3 bet
also seems like a fine spot to fold

wrong thread

Yeah, raise the flop. Neither UTG or CO are the type to raise. You don't want to start a cascade of callers. UTG gets over 3:1 to call with a flush draw. Close enough direct odds + IO to make overcalling correct. UTG grabbing chips indicates he might call a raise too.

As played, insta-call the river. Villain only has three flush combos, AK/AQ/KQ. KQ is a bit of a stretch. It's probably only one or two. You get 3.5:1 odds. He only needs one FPS AA/KK/99 in his range to justify a call.

Raise flop 100%. Half the deck is a scare card for you or Vs that might stop the action. Any paired board, diamond, or 7/8 is too likely to kill action so make it $95 and go with it. If you were deeper than a call might make more sense

Preflop is kinda meh unless we are thinking about making a move postflop, especially if this guy is tight postflop and ain't going to payoff if we hit (and the others seem tight too). I guess with the small raise we only have to pay a very small portion being in the BB, plus we'll most likely go 4way, so I'm ok with the call. We could maybe consider 3betting since CO is opening a wide range here, but if he's never going to fold, then playing a 3bet pot OOP ain't ideal either.

SPR on the flop is 6.4. The board is very drawy and a bunch of cards kill our action (and possibly our hand). This field doesn't seem bluffy. The SPR seems slightly too large to be able to get things done in 3 streets, so I'd probably plan to just bet like PSB plus PSB on the turn and get the little we have left in on the river. I also wouldn't hate a $60 bet here to attempt to get things done with a turn shove.

Now that SB donks, the board is just too drawy to flat plus we now have an opportunity to get things done by the turn. I'd raise to $100 to make it unprofitable for flush draws to continue (since we'll probably be unable to fold even if the flush draw comes in, so we can't really raise to just a more appetizing 3x if we can't fold). I don't like the flop call where there are 23 scare cards (flush / straight / board pairing).

As played, I'd probably just shove the turn. We only have 1.5 PSB left, we're either getting paid off on this board or we ain't.

Pretty difficult fold on the river but a made straight on the turn is going to shove with the flush draw out and it's unlikely a set / two pair are going to turn their hand into a bluff, so good fold I'm guessing.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Would indeed be incredibly fancy play to limp/call AA/KK non-deep.

99 turns their hand into a bluff on the river when they have showdown value against a lotta worse hands?

Gdon'tliketheriversituationwegotourselvesinto,butI 'mguessingfoldingatthispointprobablyisbestG