1/3 home game I play - usually plays pretty big and spewy but tonight it's been pretty straight forward. Game is now 5 handed as the winners and losers have left.

Hero ($385) has been absolutely card dead all night (5 hours) Getting hands like 5To J3o - I've had AKo 2 times and both times raised, and got 5 callers missed flop and just check folded. I have managed to win a few pots in good spots on the BTN vs the blinds where I picked up some dead money.

Villain ($350) - I've had history with this guy. He is capable of bluffing but is probably playing more straight forward now. Does like to get a little carried away with top pair and draws and has tried to unsuccessfully bluff me in the past. He is not the weakest player at the table, but has made some very questionable plays.

Hero is dealt JJ and opens to $10 UTG
Whole table calls course

$50 pot
KJT

check to hero
Hero bets $40
Villain raises to $100
Hero ???


I range him on AQ / Q9 / KJ / KQ / Qx spade / TJ / KT

It is going to be hard for him to have a J since I have 2.

If I just call flop, he will most likely play Turn face up.

get the monay eeen for rounda hundo bigs

go aww weeen

No really sure what our preflop thinking is? $10 is a considered a limp at pretty much any 1/3 NL table I've played at, so we should know this is going to go very multiway. Juicing? Meh.

If there were more people to react behind us, this is one of those rare boards where I might check/raise in order to get stacks in by the turn (super drawy, someone will bet it, etc.). But with only 2 left to react, I probably just bet it myself. You know who calls $40 on this board but not a PSB of $50? Absolutely no one (seriously). So I bet $50 (or more) for more immediate value.

And now I ship. Half of the deck is a scare card that can kill the action, so lets do this now while it looks like he is happy playing for stacks.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Table calls really wide so I could of gone $15 but making it $10 is plenty big enough to get stacks in on good flops. Look what happened here. Betting $50 would be better on flop.

I'm saying that I'm not really a fan of juicing. Stacks aren't outlandishly big, so we could perhaps still get them in even by limping and hitting a set. Otherwise, all the $10 raise preflop does is set things up very multiway which brings stacks into play easily when we'll most likely only flop an overpair (not a good spot) or even ~second pair (where we could set ourselves up for making a mistake).

So I'd either limp (possibly to limp reraise) or more likely just open an amount that can get this HU.

But it really depends on your style. Some people swear by seeing very multiway bloated pots with their TP type hand is the way to go, whereas others (such as myself) want to get this HU.

Gbutthat'smeG

Ya but limping JJ is not something I want to do 5 handed. I want to build a pot so if I do flop good - Txx or of course the set, I can really lay down the hammer. And I win all those pre flop calls. Also someone may fold the random 23o or 74o where if I limp they may just limp along.

Txx might not be the dream flop you think it is 5ways with an SPR of 7 having gotten in just 3% of stacks preflop.

GalthoughothersmightdisagreeG

Shove now. A spade 9 or Ace kills your action and we can rep draws ourselves.

I agree with the other poster, at the 1/3 games I play at, standard raise is $15-$20. I raise $20, with limpers behind at least $25.

I really don't like raising to $10 UTG, you're begging to get called by all sorts of riff raff, then you're going to the flop OOP with JJ and even if you flop great with an overpair you rarely know where you're at.

Raise more pre, jam flop. Way too many scare cards and/or cards that will kill your action that could come on the turn. The pot is now $190 after Villain's raise and he has $240 behind. Ship it.

Yeah, seems like an easy jamming spot. Half the deck gives one of you a hard decision on the turn. You beat most of his range, and have outs against the rest of it. Let him talk himself into calling your shove with Q10o.

Close - he had KQo but he still ended up getting stacked

Doesn't matter what you see on the board in this situation. Go ahead for the jugular. If need be you have tons of outs to the absolute nuts and since the board is very wet you're going to get other people stacks trying to draw with less outs vs. your 10 outs with a made hand. You are in a ideal situation where a big over card the King is on the board and the JT makes the board very convenient to lots of dudes to draw to str8s and flushes. You are in a commanding position.

Yesterday at the V on the Strip I was in a similar situation when my 88 flopped middle set on a A,8,K flop. I got tons of action and clean up two stacks of over 250bb each. That will pay all my bills for this month and still have $$ left to add up to my bankroll.

Never ever folding since the only hand that has us crushed is KK.

Your range assessment is lacking imo. Tons of Axss and some dumb **** like 98ss and random spades. I'm including this extra garbage because of the "questionable plays" element.

I think he mostly has a draw or Q9. Since there's 7 combos of Q9 with 1 or 2 spades (against which we have 34.44% equity), 9 combos of Q9 no spades (against which we have 38.99%), 3 combos of non-spade Q9s (against which we have 39.88% equity -- I know dividing the Q9's like this is a bit belaboring, but humor me), and nearly 5 billion and one combos of draws, this is an easy shove.

Shoving is ultra standard vs. this V, since we do great vs his range, it's hard to put him on an exact hand, and we don't know what cards slow him down / or that we should fear.

Process of elimination -- Calling and folding are horrendous, and any raise size is basically a shove. So shove already. Sorry that you lost to his Q9 (maybe AQ)

Bomb it. Half the deck cools the action and/or puts you behind. He'll call with most draws and pair+draws.

It depends what his bet sizing means. You don't want to move him off the bottom of his range.

If you see him as married to his hand, there's really no issue.

How is calling with the virtual nuts "horrendous?" Hero knows he's not folding, does villain?

this is an easy ship imo, if we call theres alot of hands that can catch up and also theres alot of action kill turn cards that will be tough to play and also try to get value from. If we are beat on the flop we still have 7 outs, assuming he doesnt have a bigger set. thats still 28% equity.

this is terrible advice. Imo I want to make it an amount to where i get action. We want people to call, we have JJ. We could make it 12 or 15, but you reasoning is wrong. We make it 12-15, not to limit the feild, but to get more value pre flop for our hand. I dont mind taking a flop multiway here. Dont be afraid to get drawn out on. Just get your value and be capable of folding when you are beat.

This hand also depends a great deal, maybe mainly, on what villain thinks of hero. If villain believes you are capable of moving in with a variety of hands, then moving in is probably best; he'll find it hard to fold his pair and gutshot.

I count 4. If 4 is a ton, I guess we have a different opinion.

If you want to include Ks, you go to 7. Again, not a ton. And sometimes we lose when a K comes because he could have KT, KJ (less likely).



But I am getting this in on the flop.

Villains almost never raise-fold at this level. He would have called the flop if he didn't want to gii. I expect villain to call about 100% of the time.

This.

/End thread

If they are calling $15 with a wide range, why not make it fifteen? Or 20?

It is a dream spot if your opponents don't like to fold and you can hand read reasonably well (I.e. get away from your hand when we are beat)

GG, I might be wrong but it seems to me that you look at SPR as a static concept. As in, "I've got JJ, the max ever SPR I should have is 'X'". It's a good tool, but I try to adjust for how loose or tight a player(s) is. IOW, I hate myself for GII with, say, JJ with an SPR of 2 against an uber nit. I'm loving it with an SPR of 7 vs a splashy fun player.

Seems like at this table, the higher SPR is fine with JJ where it flops good enough to play for stacks.

It depends. We don't actually know how the action went. If they were HU before villain acted we might see some fancy play.

But if villain had players behind him, you're probably about 100% right.

You think my suggestion to raise more pre is terrible advice, and then you spend the rest of your post suggesting that we...raise more pre. Interesting.

I never said the ONLY reason we should raise to something closer to $20 is to limit the field, of course we are raising to get value too. I simply pointed out the obvious - that raising to $10 UTG in a 1/3 game is effectively a limp, and just inviting everyone in to call with garbage hands (i.e. K3suited, weak Aces, one or two gappers, etc) and being OOP with JJ against a number of opponents with wide ranges isn't long term profitable, especially when we haven't properly built the pot up.

If we are going to play this hand OOP vs 5 opponents, they need to pay more to see that flop. If they are all calling $20 pre, we have a pot of over $120 on the flop and we can play poker from there.

My standard raise at 1/3 is $20. I do that with JJ UTG or KsQs on the button. If there are limpers behind me, I raise more depending on how many limpers. I don't vary my raise size and keep it consistent regardless of my holdings.

If you think that's "terrible advice", you and I have very different outlooks on how to win at poker.