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1/3 Flopped boat line check 1/3 Flopped boat line check

12-31-2018 , 11:05 PM
V MP ($375) - MAWG just joined the table, overheard a conversation about how he won a tourney with a friend of his- no real reads

H BB (covers) - Tight image to this V- haven't played much since he's joined

V opens $15, LP calls, BTN calls, I call in BB w / 76

Flop 776 (60)
H checks, V checks, BTN bets 20, I call, V calls, LP folds

Turn A (120)
H checks, V bets 60, BTN folds, H calls

River K (240)
H checks, V bets 125, H jams

Should I be leading anywhere or c/raising turn?
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12-31-2018 , 11:23 PM
Ya, turn needs to be raise.

Taking to much risk in checking river. Plus 4th diamond can ruin some value hands for him.
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01-01-2019 , 12:42 AM
Call pre is pretty dubious. Raise turn.
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01-01-2019 , 03:24 AM
Don't like the call pre. I'm pretty against calling raises with any hands in the blinds to begin with(generally 3-bet any hands I want to continue with from the blinds) but 67s is definitely something I would just fold.

AP, flat call flop is good, but turn needs to be a raise. I like a fishy size to induce a call, something like 140.
I doubt V is folding Jd or Td but when you take this line you seem way more nutted than you do if you had raised turn.
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01-01-2019 , 07:17 AM
raise flop
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01-01-2019 , 12:05 PM
I like 80 more on the turn; I think the flop can go either I mean you want to keep players … I think flop can go either way;

AP I like a raise on the turn given board texture and action; the guy check/called the flop and then led out on the turn; he's prob not folding to a raise so I'd look to bloat the pot and make it hard for him to fold the river bc of the price he will be getting
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01-01-2019 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Call pre is pretty dubious. Raise turn.
I think we have enough IO to take a flop here multiway; it'd be nice to be deeper but I think its ok; calling 12...12*25=300; if we can expect to make 300 the times we make our hand then its alright
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01-01-2019 , 07:08 PM
That's not how hands like this work though. Like, you can say that about small pairs flopping sets. What you flop with 76s tends to be a draw; then you have to put more money in chasing the hand down. 4 ways like this there's also substantial risk of being overflushed. I played last night and had 76dd in the blinds, I folded flop but at showdown someone showed Kxdd. A few hands later, another guy got 76cc, played it to a raise, and got overflushed and stacked by AKcc. It's not exactly super rare.

Out of position, multiway and calling a raise is the worst possible set of circumstances for suited connectors. They play much better when you're the aggressor. The straight and flush making potential of the hand is best used as backup to aggression, because it means you have some equity on a lot of runouts. If you just try to play them as drawing hands they're just bad. They have low equity against raising ranges and make second best hands a lot.
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01-02-2019 , 12:26 AM
Almost zero winning pros are folding this hand preflop closing the action.
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01-02-2019 , 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
Almost zero winning pros are folding this hand preflop closing the action.
You have absolutely no basis for that claim lol. I was pro for 6 years and I'm folding it. I would call 3x btw but 5x is too much, the SPR will be too small.

Last edited by ChrisV; 01-02-2019 at 12:54 AM.
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01-02-2019 , 12:58 AM
6 years of 1/3 holdem must have been brutal
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01-02-2019 , 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
Almost zero winning pros are folding this hand preflop closing the action.
This
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01-02-2019 , 01:04 AM
Almost zero winning pros rate that highly as a comeback.
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01-02-2019 , 01:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
That's not how hands like this work though. Like, you can say that about small pairs flopping sets. What you flop with 76s tends to be a draw; then you have to put more money in chasing the hand down. 4 ways like this there's also substantial risk of being overflushed. I played last night and had 76dd in the blinds, I folded flop but at showdown someone showed Kxdd. A few hands later, another guy got 76cc, played it to a raise, and got overflushed and stacked by AKcc. It's not exactly super rare.

Out of position, multiway and calling a raise is the worst possible set of circumstances for suited connectors. They play much better when you're the aggressor. The straight and flush making potential of the hand is best used as backup to aggression, because it means you have some equity on a lot of runouts. If you just try to play them as drawing hands they're just bad. They have low equity against raising ranges and make second best hands a lot.
Yes I agree the RIO are the worst part about playing them , I think calling with them IP has a ton of upside; OOP isn't ideal but if you can manage yourself postflop and you're getting a good price then we should call; we could always just x/f with a FD if price is not right, all depends on situation but mainly stack depth and ability to play post flop
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01-02-2019 , 04:49 AM
Nh I play it the same. Hope you’re not posting this bc you lost.
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01-02-2019 , 04:40 PM
I used to think preflop was fine but now I think it's pretty meh (especially OOP) unless playing against some real morons where our IO > RIO.

SPR is 6 on the flop which means we can easily play for stacks with like three 2/3 PSBs. Having the flop check around and miss value would be a disaster, so I just donk, probably $40ish. Betting also allows us to set the bet size without doing something extremely powerful looking like check/raising, and unfortunately I think we're forced to check/raise as played cuz $20 just is too small to build the pot we need (so I'd go to $60 at this point).

I'd donk the turn. Again, turn checking thru would be a disaster and yet we can still easily get called by hands that are willing to continue. I'd donk $100 which will setup a $240 jam into $320 on the river. As played, I probably try to get some more money in the pot now and minraise to $120.

Terrible action killing card on the river. I'd probably just hope for the best and open jam myself as my guess is he checks back far too often unless he's bluffy.

ETA: Can't believe no one else is donking the flop?

Gbet,imoG
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01-02-2019 , 07:22 PM
We got a dream runout. Still not certain we even got stacks in middle. Fact there are guys freakishly afraid of RIO blows my mind.

I play way more pots of 100BB (each) than a normal player. I also play way more hands than most. RIO are not something to fear. If we make a straight or flush. We still have choices. Making 7 high flush doesn't mean we have to play for stacks in single raised pot. Most likely we shouldn't try to play for stacks. Do we get stacked sometimes yes!!!!! Do we stack guys sometimes yes.

Do we always have easy decisions postflop? No, playing AA doesn't give us easy decision's postflop 100% of time either.

The fact we need less than 25% equity to continue is what should concern us. With a hand that plays well multi-way. We are risking 4BB to see a flop. Our IO odds are way higher than our RIO.

If you feel your opponents play so well post flop that you can't overcome the positional disadvantage you are at. Then fold. But most likely we are playing a couple of droolers who make way more postflop mistakes than a guy surfing poker strategy on the Internet.
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01-03-2019 , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
RIO are not something to fear. If we make a straight or flush. We still have choices. Making 7 high flush doesn't mean we have to play for stacks in single raised pot. Most likely we shouldn't try to play for stacks. Do we get stacked sometimes yes!!!!! Do we stack guys sometimes yes.
Good luck not playing for stacks with a flush in a lol SPR 6 pot.

If this was a limped pot with a high SPR then it's a much better spot, one where we can use our postflop skillz to attempt to figure out the best play with our flush over 3 postflop streets worth of cards / action, and never being handcuffed into a decision where our stack will be in play. If we make a flush in a small SPR pot, the action of playing for our stack is pretty much predetermined.

GimoG
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01-03-2019 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
6 years of 1/3 holdem must have been brutal
That's a gambler's mindset. It is not that hard to have fun despite folding for hours if you're not a gambler.

I fold pre without a sweat. If I'm playing this hand it's a 3-bet, but I want reads on the before I do that in a 1|3 game. I would have called a smaller open, but 5x offers horrible pot odds OOP with a hand that doesn't play great multi-way (I'd rather call Axs).

Pre-flop equity doesn't really enter the equation. Good like winning as often as you're equity says you should. It's hard continuing post with this hand without 2P or a combo draw. We're going to be folding 10-35% equity on the flop quite frequently.
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01-03-2019 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
Nh I play it the same. Hope you’re not posting this bc you lost.
kinda this. V had A7?
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01-03-2019 , 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
That's a gambler's mindset. It is not that hard to have fun despite folding for hours if you're not a gambler.
To clarify, I am not insane enough to have ever been a LLSNL pro. I was pro online, SNGs for the first couple years, back when they were actually good, then cash NL after Black Friday, multitabling 2/4 through 10/20 NL.

Rest of your post is on point.
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01-07-2019 , 03:01 AM
Results:
Spoiler:


He tanked called, I showed and MHIG
He didn't show but overheard him talking to a friend while I was away from the table that he shouldn't of thought his 8hi flush was good?

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