1/3 facing donk ship flop
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 102
1/3 Max BI $200
Hero - Young white kid. Been at the table for around 30-45 mins and have been fairly active with a run of good cards taking down most pots on flop. Covers.
Villain - well dressed MAWG. Nit. Doesn't even really limp which is common for nits at this table and in general. Haven't seen him open a hand. Sitting on $170
OTTH
Pre
Villain opens pre to $20
Hero in MP2 Raises to $55 with QQ
Villain tanks and then says 'you have AK?" I say nothing and he then flats.
First of all huge sizing tell for the open as the standard open for this table is 15 or less so nearly 7x open I put him on 10+ and AK
The speech was weird and I did consider him having maybe AJ-AQ and fishing for info but I couldn't really see that in his range.
Plan is to get it in anyway I can. Most likely just ship river as I don't think he's folding on most flops
Flop
Ah5h7c
Villain donk ships for 115
Hero?
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 830
Insta-muck
He has AK. Usually when someone asks about a specific hand it's what they hold
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 529
Tough one... I'm nearly 50/50 here...I think it'd be crazy for him to donk here without an Ace...I'd probably fold then.
He could have TT-JJ and be bluffing maybe, but most of the time he'd have the Ace.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 329
fold and find a better game where you can buy in for more than 66 bbs.
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 256
Against a NIT who raised pre and flat called a 3 bet? Turbo Muck
It's AK 60% of the time, AQ 30% of the time, KK 9.9% of the time and KQhh 0.1% of the time.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 66
snap fold find a better spot
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 36,149
I was in this exact spot about a week ago. I'm not sure if I'm being too results oriented or what, but I'm thinking against some opponents a preflop fold might actually be correct (as lol nitty as that sounds).
If he opens (as opposed to limps) most of his hands, then obviously he probably has a wide raising range and so folding preflop won't be a consideration. But if he really is just super nitty, is AK/JJ really in his range here? I think we sometimes level ourselves into thinking it is, when really they would just open smaller with these hands cuz, after all, just AK/JJ, and that just warrants a $10 open. So obviously, opponent dependent.
As for 3betting against a nit, what hands is he continuing with? I'm guessing a lotta hands we want him to continue with go into the muck.
We could just flat. If everyone is this short, we don't really hate a fish coming along for the ride. We typically get away from our hand on A/K flops that he continues with, we take his stack on Q flops, and we play postflop in position on other flops and hopefully can figure out what is going on. I'm kinda thinking this might be better? But overall, I really don't find preflop very simple at all.
As played, on the flop, I'd just fold. Is he really turning JJ into a bluff? Board is also drawy, so even hands as strong as AA can still easily just open ship here for fear of the draws getting there in a big pot.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Last edited by gobbledygeek; 12-21-2015 at 02:17 PM.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,535
Basic fold. Also dont 3bet a nit pre who opens larger than usual with QQ. His range is exactly AA KK AK and maaaybe AQ. post its AA AK or AQ.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 11,344
what position did the nit open raise from? this is rather important while considering 3betting queens. QQ is not an automatic 3bet, and we could have gotten away from this hand a lot cheaper if we flatted (especially if he opened UTG).
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 920
Yeah, easy fold. You're ranging him way too wide if he's actually a nit. No chance a nit has AQ or AJ there. His range is JJ+, and AK. When he ships the flop, it's almost never JJ.
You only beat a bluff, and you're playing against someone who doesn't tend to bluff. Easy poker.
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 102
Thanks for the replies.
Hero begrudgingly snap folds.
Just wanted to know if he ever had like TT or JJ in this spot but yeah I don't think it's ever enough to warrant a call.
Hero does show the lay down. Just wondering thought?
Normally. I never show any hand except at showdown.
But I wanted to see his reaction plus is it ok for me to show that I can lay down big hands to induce later bluffs or is it just never a good idea to show?