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<img -3 Extracting Max Value with nut flush limped pot <img -3 Extracting Max Value with nut flush limped pot

03-16-2018 , 02:36 PM
MP ($600) have no reads other than that this is my normal casino and I've never seen him. He has been playing a lot of hands. In an earlier hand he folded to a second barrel from me when I was PFR and I double barreled a K turn on a wet board (I only had A high and might have been good anyway).

LP ($550) older guy that I have played with before. I have experience with him slow playing strong hands and then lowering the boom on the river. He has done this to me in the past and I saw him do it earlier on this table to another player. Overall, he is a winner at these stakes.

Hero($350) My image at this time should be tight aggressive to the player that is newer to me. MP older guy has seen me get out of line before. My image is usually a looser aggressive style. It might come up in the discussion, so I will disclose that this casino is a max $500 buy-in. I have recently switched to a $300 buy-in strategy and then deciding when to top up to $500 after playing for a bit. This is early in the session.

OTH - Hero is dealt K6 in the SB. 3 players limp including two villains and hero completes. BB checks his option.

Flop ($15) AT6 . With the equity that I have in the hand I decide to start building a pot right now and lead out for $10. The two villains in the hand an 1 other call.

Turn ($49 rake taken) 2 I figure that at least one of the others has to have had a flush draw and go for the fat value - $50. Both of the two villains call without much hesitation.

River ($198) J I fiddle with my chips for a little and decide I may be taking a little too long. I bet $165. MP villain goes into the tank and calls after about a minute and a half. LP villain sighs, flashes his cards at his neighbor and folds. LP villain shows J5 after I table my hand.

I know I got pretty good value for my hand, but I don't usually play a lot of limped pots and I have been changing up my game lately to try to incorporate this into my game. Do you guys think a check raise is better on either the turn or river? Better to over bet turn and river to get it all in? Or fine as played?
<img -3 Extracting Max Value with nut flush limped pot Quote
03-16-2018 , 03:00 PM
Well played good sir. I honestly dont see anything wrong here and play it the same. Its going to be tough to get stacks in when youre this deep in a limped pot.
<img -3 Extracting Max Value with nut flush limped pot Quote
03-16-2018 , 03:00 PM
Looks fine to me.
<img -3 Extracting Max Value with nut flush limped pot Quote
03-16-2018 , 03:00 PM
Once you bet flop and get multiple callers just keep going. Against a single opponent you can consider playing around on turn or river. With multiple people in the pot the chance they bet drops way down. There are too many hands (two pair/sets/low flushes/single high clubs) that are likely to call a turn bet that are unlikely to bet into multiple people once the flush comes in. On the river your bet will get a lot of folds. The folds are mostly hands that won't bet if you check so you are not actually giving up much value.

With your specific read on LP I might consider a check/raise on the river if I was convinced he was waiting to bet. Generally though leading is much better.

The flop is the point to consider a check/raise. In general I would use a mix of checking and leading. This situation favor leading though, LP won't bet for you enough and villains are likely to have AX hands that are calling at least one street but may not bet.
<img -3 Extracting Max Value with nut flush limped pot Quote
03-16-2018 , 03:08 PM
I'm fine with preflop. I also don't think it's a crime to fold mostly because making the second nut flush can be costly at some tables (while an obvious money maker at others). I've actually been leaning to folding Kxs on the Button lately so folding it OOP can't be bad if I'm doing it there (although we're getting a much better price at this point plus less chance of being raised preflop).

I'm cool with the equity hogging pot building bet especially with the nut draw. We probably have some small FE too.

I'm cool with our turn betting and sizing. A turn check/raise is an interesting idea that I probably don't consider as much as I should, although I think on this board there are so many other hands besides flushes that could be seeing the turn that it simply checks around too often and we can't afford that.

I typically just overbet shove the river here. You're unknown against one guy, and the other guy views as as aggro and he could be sandbagging a hand he considers nuttish. This is a pretty fantastic board to do it on as flushes will simply have a difficult time folding plus there are even other hands that could warrant a hero call (there's a nut straight, there's lottsa big two pairs).

ETA: Also just realized we only started the hand with $350 and aren't at the much deeper $500 (which I originally thought). So I actually think river sizing is a decent mistake. A shove is only a slight overshove of $287 into $198 (not much of an overshove really) and if he's calling with his J high flush 100% of time (which he is) then he only has to call the slight overshove 57% of the time to be the same (and he is at least doing that, imo). If we were sitting like with $500 behind, which is very difficult to get out of a winning player, then more argument to massage our river sizing.

ETA#2: And with all these flop callers, another idea is to bomb the turn for like $75, although this is likely only targetting flushes and will lose anything else (whereas perhaps a PSB gets more from everyone?).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 03-16-2018 at 03:17 PM.
<img -3 Extracting Max Value with nut flush limped pot Quote
03-16-2018 , 03:31 PM
I don't agree with most of GG's post, particularly about not overlimping K3s in the SB, especially if the BB hasn't been squeezing, but I do agree to a point about one thing: I think you have to increase your turn bet sizing to set up a river shove. If they call a PSB, they probably call another $20 on top, and that sets up a better river bet.
<img -3 Extracting Max Value with nut flush limped pot Quote
03-18-2018 , 02:35 PM
Flop : is fine,
Turn : I like a slightly smaller bet, you have the nuts and want action, by betting pot it may actually fold out smaller flushes like 9 high flushes and smaller , perhaps a 60-80% PSB ,
River : this street to me would be completely villian dependent , generally lead towards just firing out , but mix in some x/r's against V's that I feel could value bet any 2pairs or better ,
If I was leading out this street after firing turn PSB I would tend to make my bet slightly smaller as well as what else can you have here besides high flush ?? Your sizing has polarized your hand a bit too much in my opinion and I would probably lay down 10/J high flush to you here based on your action , that's just me personally , probably there is the argument that ALOT of llsnl players will be paying you off here so don't read into this as much as yes it will be paid off from J high flushes often but against smart opponents with ur action I can't see too many ppl calling your river sizing
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03-18-2018 , 04:27 PM
I like the line. Keep in mind that, for a c/r to be profitable on the river, you need villains to either call your raise or bet larger than you bet. 1-3 villains tend to size their bets too small, so your profit is only going to come from the parts of their range/players in the player pool that will call a check-raise shove.
<img -3 Extracting Max Value with nut flush limped pot Quote
03-18-2018 , 05:52 PM
A CR at any point would be a large mistake IMO. At low stakes people don't fold enough and don't valuebet enough. A weak flush might check back and 2 pair might call. And if they ever do find folds it is to something like bet bet check raise.

Flop fine. Turn fine. On the turn in spots like this i don't like to overbet. You want multiple callers if possible, which you got.

River is a pretty clear all in. I have had people fold weak flushes here but that's not the norm. It's just very easy for them to call psychologically and then say "what could i do?" As they commiserate with thier neighbors about their bad luck.
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