gobble,

you can fire 3 streets smaller to open up villains calling ranges, and against the population you can bet and fold to any aggression. or if deeper you can start throwing in some checks when the board is advantageous to limp/calling ranges.

and mr. OMC with the AA played his hand great against the population, overpair with SPR of a little over 1 against weak calling ranges is a fantastic result.

This is where it makes no sense GG:

GG: opponents are calling 12x 66BB deep against obv AA

Also GG: Villains are DEFINITELY thinking about opponents hands

There just isn't much logical consistency here

I'm all for the small bet/fold idea. It's just that in very multiway non-big SPR pots, even small bets gets you (and your opponent) into commitment spots almost immediately with non-deep stacks.

I have zero problem with the AA result and also believe it is definitely profitable (18% of stacks preflop, lol, awesome). But I also believe limp/reraising will be more profitable overall in that spot.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Exactly this. You cant have it both ways,because then your arguments doesent fit the bill.

It's *completely* consistent.

They only have to pay $36 to see a flop. That's a fairly reasonable price to them when they've got $200 stacks in front of them and a couple of other guys are seeing the flop too ("if he hadda called I woulda called"). Of course, from an IO viewpoint it's completely horrible and obviously not profitable, but they don't understand that. Lol, later in the evening the guy that won the pot commented on a Button folding to a raise from the blinds, stating "lol, you're getting 4:1 immediate odds, you shouldn't be folding anything there" (of course not factoring in RIO, the fact the player will rarely be able to realize his equity, etc.).

Doesn't mean they don't know the guy has ~AA. Everyone knew he had AA. They're calling to crack it. Was it profitable? Of course not. But try convincing the guy who dragged the $600 pot of that.

GcluelessNLnoobG

This is also very true, and the main reason of this extreme MUBSYness is that 98 percent of LLSNL villains plays severly underrolled. A huge percentage only have a "roll" of max 3-4 buyins to their name at any given time. This results in a pretty big fair of losing their stack, wich basically at any point could mean they are busto and have to call it a night. Saving some of their stack (and thus get to keep playing) is number one priority for most players, because they are addicted to playing/gamble.

When youre up against the very few players in LLSNL that actually have alot of money, they are very rarely- if ever, afraid to move money into the middle. Because they know they can easily reload and keep playing if the get coolered,sucked out on or whatever.

My guess is the MUBSyness is more because they've all been around the block and know that their overpair can easily be beaten on a 732r flop when their bet into the world is called (because they've all had the sting of that hit them more times than they can count). The first timer gets hard with his overpair on this flop and can't wait to get all his chips in so he can cluelessly and proudly table his big pair. But no one nowadays is a first timer, so they're a little bit more cautious in this spot.

I'm not even sure exactly what I think of MUBSyness. I think a lot of people miss some value due to this. But I also think it helps them from punting huge money. It may actually be a fairly good attribute to possess and help turn horrendous players into just poor players.

GcluelessMUBSynoobG

Ok so what happens if they take a flop with incorrect odds and whiff the other 80% of the time or whatever it is? Do they just c/f?

IOW if you are correct it still doesn't change the fact that if we raise big every hand and they KNOW we have AA and want to crack it then we CAN PRINT MONEY HERE BY JUST RAISING BIG AND PLAYING IT LIKE AA.

Obv I'm being a bit hyperbolic but that should be the adjustment against these villains.

LOL people say dumb **** after basically every single hand to justify their play. EVERY SINGLE HAND. Half the time they are just spewing a word salad of poker terms that they think makes them look smart

All I'm trying to illustrate is your typical opponent, for one reason or another (whether it be MUBSyness or a little bit more knowledge than "I know wat I haz" or whatever), aren't cluelessly just hurp durping in money into the pot all the time.

So, if you raise preflop, and give a bunch of your non-completely-clueless-(albeit-admittedly-loose) opponents fairly okish IO to see a flop and then create a small SPR, it creates an awkward spot. There's an ok chance someone actually simply outflopped you this multiway (so good luck printing money by constantly barrelling your air / no draw into the person who passively sigh calls down their set). Meanwhile, this isn't going to be as offset as it once was by people excitedly going to the felt with mediocre hands when you have your obvious overpair.

Again, I'm not saying you won't be able to steal more than your fair share of pots barrelling people of their TP hands. Will it make up for the times you go broke barrelling into the nuts? Maybe. But you better have a real deep bankroll and a real good grasp on your mental game to withstand the fluctuations, imo.

Gbut,youcandowhatyouwantG

If you limp reraised me I would probably fold QQ

But he would never do that as a bluff, that is the interesting part about GG arguments and statements.

He always argues that almost nobody at LLSNL these days are clueless droolers. They can handread well, "always" know what you have if you this and that and so forth. But he doesent want to possibly raise his own winrate by stepping out of the box and exploit the statements he is preaching.

Like Slim have said in this thread to GG, and countless other posters before him: you just cant have it both ways, because then youre arguments simply isnt true.

If what GG is preaching about the dynamics in his own games really is true- he would just print money by opening up his game in several spots and light 3 bet alot more,isoraise limpers huge from the blinds repping a premium pocket pair, double/triple barrell bluff alot more++.

But i strongly suspect it simply isnt true: its rather a constantly ongoing defense regarding his scary ubernit pokerstyle that he feels so comfortable with. GG always tailors his arguments in order to defend his own nit style of play.

Like yeah, i can have nights where i am totally carddead and dont play a hand for 3 hours. When i finally pick up KK or AA, i still almost always get action. Its just never fails. You can even see the same principle regurarly on livestreams such as Live at the bike. It doesent matter if the villains believe you are very likely to have a strong hand- they still have the urge to try and suckout on you in a big pot. It doesent matter what they say with words, what matters is how they actually play. That is how the classic livefish works.

I agree completely. If GG went bananas every session it would take them months to adjust. What I would do for that image

Exactly. It would be total mayhem and they would have absolutely zero idea what hit them.

Raise a little bigger pf.

Good spot to jam the flop.

As played I just call it off. It's only a benji.

Here's how I look at it. Ideally, your continuing range should look like a pyramid. The deeper the street you re in, the narrower it gets, but it should be a gradual. smooth transition.

Bad player's range are extremely wide on the flop and then depending on the villain, they narrow down considerably on this or that street. For most, it's the flop. Then there are degrees of calling stations. Some will fold the vast majority of their range on the turn, others on the river, a few will go all the way with their mid-botton pairs. Then there's a minority that will try hiding this transition by turning the part of the range that should have been discarded 2 streets ago into bluffs.

That's a long way of saying that most bad players mistakes happen on on preflop. How they deal with those mistakes postflop is how we take advantage of them. Arguably however, the vast majority of bad regs don't make as big mistakes on later streets, or rather they don't make big calling mistakes, they still make betting mistakes.