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Old 02-21-2021, 09:34 PM   #1
Submerged
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$1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

Relevant hand history when I was newer to the table I raised 4 limpers to $15 on my big blind with QTdd & got 2 callers. Flop was 963r. I c-bet $25, 1 call. Turn was 3d bringing my flush draw and I barrelled $60. River was a J non diamond and I tripled for $155 and was called by 9To (he was first limper pre)

The guy that stationed me in that hand is MP this hand. CO is an older guy that was at the table when the above happened.

OTTH

I am UTG ($800) and raise to $13 with KK. The only callers are MP1 (around $800, he covers) and CO ($375).

Flop ($42 - I took all rake out here $7). 553r. I like to check my KK and AA on these type boards as I am way ahead or way behind without needing much protection. MP bets $25 and the older guy calls. I call as well.

Turn ($117) 5. I check again in flow and MP bets $55 and CO calls.

To say something about the MP range, since he has gotten deep I have seen him at showdown with AKs, KK, and TT - none of which he raised pre-flop. he is playing a very passive game pre-flop

I decide to call the $55 with plans to check raise most rivers and fold to 3 bets

River ($282) 9 I check and the MP player bets $65. The CO calls. I am now more convinced that they are both on pocket pairs and raise to $175.

Thoughts on the play? With a bluffy image, maybe check raise turn, bet river? I think I lose cutoff if I do that.
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Old 02-21-2021, 10:50 PM   #2
josofo
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

You can check raise flop or turn. As played on river you can go a bit bigger like 275.
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:12 PM   #3
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

Bet the flop. Your strategy of barreling air and checking strong hands is not a winner.
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Old 02-22-2021, 02:27 AM   #4
Jarretman
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

Checking flop is fine like you said some KK and AA don't need protection but esp with KK we want to xr and esp at LLSNL there's way more value in xr flop than xc.

Ap turn I'd xr again with KK

Ap river xr is good and i like folding to a 3bet but I'd raise a little bigger.
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Old 02-22-2021, 07:24 AM   #5
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball View Post
Bet the flop. Your strategy of barreling air and checking strong hands is not a winner.

I would hope my play is a little more nuanced than that!
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:19 AM   #6
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

I'm more likely to X flop HU than multi-way.

I'd bet at least 70% pot on the flop, seems to be an inelastic spot, for value. Proceed from there.
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Old 02-22-2021, 11:57 AM   #7
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

With our image, I'd prefer a bet/bet/bet line and then evaluate if raised.

We're not quite WA/WB on the flop as we can easily be called by worse. Checking any street can have the disaster of it checking thru, especially on later streets in pots that have remained 3ways where a lot of players are going to be concerned someone is sandbagging the quads. Also think going for 4 postflop streets of betting (i.e. getting a check/raise and future bets called by worse) is a little optimistic / perhaps overplayee 3ways (although if I somehow arrived at and played the river this way, I don't mind it now given the sizing + just a call).

ETA: Rethinking river just a little bit, in spite of the small sizing by MP, is anyone else concerned that he's barrelling for a 3rd consecutive street with the old man still in the hand behind him 3ways? Most people scared check most showdownable hands in this spot, not bet them for thin value. Kinda again why I think check/raising is meh (too often people will check behind hands that will consider calling a bet, and meanwhile may only continue betting hands that beat us).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 02-22-2021 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 02-22-2021, 02:27 PM   #8
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
With our image, I'd prefer a bet/bet/bet line and then evaluate if raised.

We're not quite WA/WB on the flop as we can easily be called by worse. Checking any street can have the disaster of it checking thru, especially on later streets in pots that have remained 3ways where a lot of players are going to be concerned someone is sandbagging the quads. Also think going for 4 postflop streets of betting (i.e. getting a check/raise and future bets called by worse) is a little optimistic / perhaps overplayee 3ways (although if I somehow arrived at and played the river this way, I don't mind it now given the sizing + just a call).

ETA: Rethinking river just a little bit, in spite of the small sizing by MP, is anyone else concerned that he's barrelling for a 3rd consecutive street with the old man still in the hand behind him 3ways? Most people scared check most showdownable hands in this spot, not bet them for thin value. Kinda again why I think check/raising is meh (too often people will check behind hands that will consider calling a bet, and meanwhile may only continue betting hands that beat us).

GcluelessNLnoobG

but he bet so small like its a weird line if he has a 5. maybe he bet small because he is being tricky and wants us to raise so he can jam. but one thing about poker is sometimes you are going to fall into their trap, you can't be scared to make the correct raise that +ev even if sometimes they are going to reraise you.

you just have to be prepared to let it go if you can get reraised.
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Old 02-22-2021, 06:36 PM   #9
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

I have in the not too distant past become too attached to overpairs. I tried to compensate for that this time by taking a cautious approach. My thought was if I took a bet/bet/bet line I would be unable to fold due to thinking they may be overvaluing a JJ/TT type hand. So I decided to play the line this way. With the bet coming from early my read in game was that the old guy was more likely to have trips and I could fold to bet/raise in front on river and potentially on turn as long as I donít read it for a show down type raise.
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Old 02-22-2021, 07:42 PM   #10
OvertlySexual
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
Checking flop is fine like you said some KK and AA don't need protection but esp with KK we want to xr and esp at LLSNL there's way more value in xr flop than xc.

Ap turn I'd xr again with KK

Ap river xr is good and i like folding to a 3bet but I'd raise a little bigger.
I agree with you. But does this change when we are almost 300BB deep? Are we comfortable getting stacks in even if we are the ones doing a xrbb line?
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Old 02-22-2021, 10:46 PM   #11
javi
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

WA/WB on a 553 flop? Bro you're behind a random 5 and ahead of everything else. Bet. Nobody is folding 66+. And in fact I wouldnt ever be looking to x/r any single pairs 300BB deep ever unless I was up against some stone cold bully/maniac type player.
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Old 02-23-2021, 10:39 PM   #12
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

MP tank calls and shows JJ. Old guy folds pretty quick.
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Old 02-24-2021, 07:44 AM   #13
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Re: $1/3 Check Raise River w/ Bluffy Image

Check/rizzling turn and following up with a riverbet if called here is a pretty sexy line with a somewhat bluffy or spazzy image. It looks like you might try to buy the pot on the turn out of frustration and trying to get something going, and then feeling compelled to fire again on the river when your turnattempt got called.

That being said just C-betting flop and keep betting is a solid line too, who works even better with a bluffy or even losing image. People will tend to put you on big high cards, and be non belivers and station off quite loose.
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