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1/3 cbetting paired flush boards 1/3 cbetting paired flush boards

02-06-2019 , 02:18 PM
these are spots where we have to remember we are playing a range of cards rather than exact cards, if we have a tight image or if people are calling too much we can c-bet more often, if we have been loose while our opponents are tight we can c-bet less often

overall tho, the frequency we bet the flop should be around 55-60% since that should be an optimum c-bet frequency for all of our hands. This means we should check Aces or Kings or any overpairs some of the time but less frequently. It's definitely not wrong to c-bet all of these flops but not all of the time

double barrell frequency should be around half of the flop bet frequency and triple barrell frequency doesn't matter. when we get to the river all that matters is villains fold % so we can just give up vs some people and keep going vs others depending on stacks obv but there is math that we can use on the river independently of what happened previous
1/3 cbetting paired flush boards Quote
02-06-2019 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
That's interesting. I'm not going to ask you to do a ton of work for me, but I don't have PIO yet. Can you post one solution that shows what you're referencing?

I c-bet 100% because most players at this stake have very weak, wide ranges and don't float hands they are supposed to. For example in H1 they will get to the flop with 98o and fold to any bet, which they should, but they'll also get to the flop with KhQh and fold, which they shouldn't.

I honesty think I get like 70% folds HU on paired flops to a half pot bet, which is why I make the exploitative adjustment of betting range.
Sorry I don’t have PIO either. I just know these things from my weekly coaching lessons.
1/3 cbetting paired flush boards Quote
02-06-2019 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KID777777
A variety of responses itt
Some c/f, some one and done, some say keep barreling

KT, DumbosTrunk, if we barrel turn it has to be to barrel river?? Are there any rivers you are giving up?

DK how are we playing rivers if we c/c with Ahi OOP
C/c if bink pair, c/f unimproved?

Minatorr for sure hand 2 is too loose, but in all three are you c/f?? What is your cbetting range here
H1 is a x/f imo, cbet isnt terrible but H2 cbet is definitely a x/f and torching vs 2 plyers on this board

H3 very good candidate to xc board is bad for us and IP will stab a lot with weak hands he otherwise would have folded to vs bet, we can continue on a lot of turns as well.
1/3 cbetting paired flush boards Quote
02-06-2019 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wait
I disagree with all four statements



This
Your preflop ranges, the very first street of poker and the simplest, are terrible if you’re iso’ing KTo in the HJ, ‘nuff said lol
1/3 cbetting paired flush boards Quote
02-06-2019 , 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
I think all of these hands were misplayed. Not trying to be rude but none of these are range cbet spots.

Hand 1) Check flop, can check fold without BDFD or delayed cbet some turns.

Hand 2) fold preflop. ISO raising over 2 limpers is way to loose. Even online an open from the HJ is barely profitable with KTo and that is with no limpers. Given sticky tendencies there is no way preflop is profitable.

OTF we can either check or bet. You should bet with a diamond and check without (you didn’t specify if you had one or not). Your sizing is too small too. In SRP (Single raised Pots) we almost never want to go 1/2 pot on any board. We should be going 1/3 or 3/4. Since we do not cbet range we cbet polarized so you need to go bigger and go 3/4 pot.

Hand 3) Again this is a check range spot. Paired boards OOP are usually check range spots in PIO. But let’s say you wanted to deviate and cbet, your sizing is just not good. You need to bet 3/4 pot and not 40% pot.

These may all seem like “standard spots” but the standard is set very low here. You can definitely improve your winrate in these situations.
I finally agree with you
1/3 cbetting paired flush boards Quote
02-06-2019 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Just about every time someone says this on this forum, its wrong. Its wrong here also. The percentage of folds I get when cbetting a paired board is very high. If its HU and I have 2 overs, a backdoor FD and whats probably also the best hand...Im betting.
Im gonna go out on a limb and assume that you havent really taken a look at Equilab/Flopzilla/PIO/Pokerstove much at all, and any form of range analysis/constructions.

Yes, betting may be +EV in H3 but checking is probably better and yields more EV and induces more mistakes/flop stabs w/ low equity. H1 i exaggerated, a cbet isnt terrible but i’d still check. Just because we check doesnt mean that we x/f every single time. That’s a very strange assumption people tend to make when playing OOP. It’s like when they get dbl barreled on a montone board with a set and just rip OTT 300bb deep bc they don’t know what to do on rivers (hand posted today). IP will check or give up a lot bc they’re passive. So on 30-70% of rivers we just check and IP checks back. We can delay cbet some turns, or we can check it down and win with K high. Checking H1 is literally not the end of the world. IP technically is supposed to stab this with 70-90% freq but in practice live players are going to very very underbluff vs a missed cbet. Thus we overrealize our equity and can even bluff future streets very profitably, since IP should rarely ever check a weak overpair or 6x here. They’ll just bet all their pairs, flush draws, and check their garbage / A-high that they’ll probably fold on later streets

H2 KTo no diamond cbet is definitely bad and there’s literally no good reason to cbet vs two players on this board. If you’re defending a flop cbet on this board vs two players without a diamond I really don’t know what to tell you other than to seriously consider taking even a peak at range analysis/constructions

Yes you win a lot of money playing your unorthodox style but if you ever looked beyond it, you’d be a lot better and win even more money. I’d bet on that. And also because you have basically zero knowledge of theory, you’ll get a lot in return if you ever looked at it for even a little bit (diminishing marginal returns idea). Don’t think you would anytime soon but your loss

Last edited by Minatorr; 02-06-2019 at 04:43 PM.
1/3 cbetting paired flush boards Quote
02-06-2019 , 06:38 PM
funny i think i can solve this in my head

flop 1 would be around 65-70% c-bet with lower double barrell frequency, 15%

flop 2 would be 55%-60% with around 25-30 dbl barrel (there is a logical reason why this should be a 2barrell more often than not) -- in fact this is our most logical candidate for a 3 barrell, one of the reasons being it has the least showdown value and barreling is the best way to win the pot, we also have the most uncapped range here

flop 3 would be 25% cbet with almost no betting at all when called, like 0% bet turn

don't ask how i come up with this but i wager a good solver would say the same thing

Last edited by KT_Purple; 02-06-2019 at 06:46 PM.
1/3 cbetting paired flush boards Quote
02-06-2019 , 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_Purple
funny i think i can solve this in my head

flop 1 would be around 65-70% c-bet with lower double barrell frequency, 15%

flop 2 would be 55%-60% with around 25-30 dbl barrel (there is a logical reason why this should be a 2barrell more often than not) -- in fact this is our most logical candidate for a 3 barrell, one of the reasons being it has the least showdown value and barreling is the best way to win the pot, we also have the most uncapped range here

flop 3 would be 25% cbet with almost no betting at all when called, like 0% bet turn

don't ask how i come up with this but i wager a good solver would say the same thing
Lol is this a troll post?
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