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Old 10-02-2018, 07:18 PM   #1
feel wrath
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1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Ok guys, I need help I haven't played 1/3 in a long time and this hand happened in a new casino while I was waiting for the bigger table

120bb effective

I limp utg 77. B.B. checks. Heads up.

Flop (7): Q87r

Villain checks, I bet 6, Villain check raises to 35,
I 4 bet to 105 and Villain jams 360

call or fold and...are we 4 betting or flatting the check raise?
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:24 PM   #2
football0020
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

It seems pretty unlikely that he'd check QQ from the BB here, so you really only lose to 88 (if he would even check that from the BB). Snap call.
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:27 PM   #3
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Too much Q8/Q7/87 in BB’s range to fold. Q8 is the most likely hand combinatorically plus some 9T spazz.

I don’t really like the UTG limp but do you ever see yourself folding bottom set for 120 BB’s in a raised pot? I don’t - and his range is going to be tighter there than a limped pot.
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:30 PM   #4
Badreg2017
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Never folding...he has 9 possible combos of Q8 and 3 Q7. I can’t imagine he doesn’t play at least 4 combos of two pair/top pair/random spazz this way.
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:36 PM   #5
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Seems like V read you for 77 and is trying to fast play/cooler you with 88 and maybe occasionally slow played QQ pre
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:41 PM   #6
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Call but not super thrilled.

Vs x/r fine to 3b over him, tho i’d make it like 90-95. Wanna get the money in asap before bad cards roll off, plus his sizing suggests it’s value anyway and he wants to start stacking off
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:47 PM   #7
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Loooooool


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Old 10-02-2018, 08:24 PM   #8
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Smells like 8s to me bruh. Fold and show to let him know how solid you are.
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:35 PM   #9
timmay28
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Fold, then post the hand on 2+2 as proof how good u are at dodging bullets. If anyone doubts ur awesomeness then shift conversation to winrates over meaningless samples
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:45 PM   #10
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

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Fold, then post the hand on 2+2 as proof how good u are at dodging bullets. If anyone doubts ur awesomeness then shift conversation to winrates over meaningless samples
Bob and weave. Shift and deflect.
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:52 PM   #11
DrChesspain
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

I'd call, but only if my opponent agrees that if I win the hand he needs to loudly tell the dealer in his best Teddy KGB accent, "Pay that man his money."
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:55 PM   #12
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Iím never folding bottom set here in a 1/3 game.


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Old 10-02-2018, 09:46 PM   #13
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Obviously nasty, but from a combo perspective I think it's a crying call.

I also think his jam size is crazy large. It's remotely possible you could've limped QQ UTG with the intent to L/RR. Idk, it's $1-$3, so w/e.

I'd flat the 3b ip, less likely it's a draw or combo since he's oop. Could be overplaying AQ. $ likely going on most turns anyway.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:39 PM   #14
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

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Obviously nasty, but from a combo perspective I think it's a crying call.

I also think his jam size is crazy large. It's remotely possible you could've limped QQ UTG with the intent to L/RR. Idk, it's $1-$3, so w/e.

I'd flat the 3b ip, less likely it's a draw or combo since he's oop. Could be overplaying AQ. $ likely going on most turns anyway.
If itís less likely to be a draw or combo shouldnt we be putting in more money asap? Yeah, my standard here as well as from balance/ďstandardĒ/gto line would be to flat, especially vs tougher players or say if we are BTN vs BB HU raised pot, but his range is super face up to minimum 80%+ value and i think itís best to just start building the pot asap.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:14 AM   #15
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

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Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
If itís less likely to be a draw or combo shouldnt we be putting in more money asap? Yeah, my standard here as well as from balance/ďstandardĒ/gto line would be to flat, especially vs tougher players or say if we are BTN vs BB HU raised pot, but his range is super face up to minimum 80%+ value and i think itís best to just start building the pot asap.
Yup, I agree his range is heavily weighted toward value. My experience is that range (villain) will usually continue to put $ in on turn, whereas a draw, perhaps even a pair combo/draw may put the brakes on. Not enough info on the V, limped pot, so my line would be more standard (flat) than trying to balance.
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:43 AM   #16
LarryGrill
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Any info on the villain? Old, young, race? Way more 2p combos than sets. Seems like an easy call to me without any other info.
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:57 AM   #17
gobbledygeek
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

You limp UTG and it ends up HU with the BB?!?! Are you playing at a 2 handed table?

I'm fine with preflop (I actually fold 66 here now, but that's me).

I probably go $20 on the flop. No one folds a draw on the flop and the flop is the easiest place we can get away with lol overbet sizing. Might be opponent dependent (against nits I'm fine with $10, against bluffers I might go $3 to induce) but in general I think we want our overall average sizing to be as huge as possible.

As played, any reads? If we're getting any sort of reggy / this-ain't-my-first-rodeo vibe, I think it's a pretty gross spot. All two pairs can see all sets out here (including QQ limped UTG), so I think they're mostly in call/eval mode, even in this weird unheard of UTG/BB dynamic.

ETA: I've seen enough hands over my last couple of sessions where my brain has leaked out my ear at the results, so obviously not hating at all on snap calling. But the number one property of most long time regs who have managed to survive is MUBSyness (and I won't even hate on that), so if that's who were up against, then I think it's still a somewhat gross spot. But add in a couple of tricky AA/KK, and probably can't get away here.

Gmoveupto2/5wheretheyrespectyourflop3bets,ldoG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 10-03-2018 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:33 PM   #18
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

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Smells like 8s to me bruh. Fold and show to let him know how solid you are.
This. Always.

Why isn't anyone concerned with villain holding T9 and the J spiking the turn?

For real though. Call.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:49 PM   #19
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Snap call
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:53 PM   #20
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

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Originally Posted by bwslim69 View Post
Loooooool


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This whole thread is idiotic to me. I’m high 5’ing everyone I can find and cramming my chips in expecting to need to dodge 4-8 outs, or possibly having him drawing basically dead. If he had 10,000 bb’s then think about it but at ~100 bb’s for the love of all things holy just cram your chips in. This thread has pissed me off. Just save the 6 bucks and fold to the flop bet. Seriously, nobody cares he had 8’s or T6o and got there or whatever. It happens, nobody cares and there’s no value in this thread.

Last edited by twitcherroo; 10-03-2018 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:01 PM   #21
gobbledygeek
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

^^^

Pot is meaningless $7 going to the flop and you think most players are happy getting in non-short $360 stacks facing a flop 3bet on a pretty dry board?

Again, not hating a call at all. But calling this a high five spot is lol, imo.

GoutofstepG
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:11 PM   #22
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
^^^

Pot is meaningless $7 going to the flop and you think most players are happy getting in non-short $360 stacks facing a flop 3bet on a pretty dry board?

Again, not hating a call at all. But calling this a high five spot is lol, imo.

GoutofstepG
Against an unknown V, yes I do. V’s in my pool have a range of TP+ here. I’m high 5’ing everyone I can reach. Not at all disputing that V will absolutely have 88 and less often QQ in their range. This weekend, just as an example I called a guys 5b shove preflop w/ K’s and V showed pocket 5’s. But I have a very AG portion of my V pool along with a typical passive fish pond. For those concerned I flopped a set and turned quads so all is good.

GG - just wondering out loud, Aside from this particular hand, for an AI to be defined as high-5 worthy, what % equity would you want / need? Anything north of ~75% is GREAT for me, but other certainly others may have a different number in mind.

Last edited by twitcherroo; 10-03-2018 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:56 PM   #23
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

It has less do with equity combo-wise than it does with what percentage of your player pool is willing to hurp durp off $360 into a $7 pot with two pear facing a flop 3bet (when 95% of flop 3bets are the nuts). If Feelie is wearing a kangaroo hat and looks slightly inebriated, I'd feel better about it; not as much if he has his shirt tucked in.

I've responded to a few of these posts just recently (I think this is the third one involving a set and what people are willing to hurp durp off, the other ones involving much larger stacks). And I'll admit that if you asked me this just a week+ ago I'd probably lean towards a harder line on "it's a lot grosser than you think", but having seen a few brain leaking HHs in my own game in just the last few sessions I guess I'm willing to soften up a bit on it (but that's also being fairly results oriented having seen just a few lol HHs in quick succession which simply aren't the norm, one of them involving like the ~3rd biggest pot I can remember that didn't involve a maniac).

Gcalling,nothighfivinganyoneG
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:00 PM   #24
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

Never go broke in a limped pot ...

Unfortunately there are enough AA/KK/Q8 even AQ hands out there at low limits that you should call here. This is a 'made' hand for sure unless there's some history already that we don't know about.

V raises 29 into 19! Was he really expecting a call here? Was he really afraid of a OESD cracking his AA?

Problem is how the betting went, V should've 'woke up' when Hero 3-bet to 105 and stopped to consider Hero having a set. This doesn't always happen when a Player falls in love with their over-pair as gets more action than they were expecting ... just hate losing here when we know we're leaving the table 'soon'. GL
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:43 PM   #25
feel wrath
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Re: 1/3 bottom set vs unknown villain facing HEAT on the flop.

thanks for the replies guys. this was not my hand - a friend shared it with me.

Results.

he considered a fold and almost did but called and was shown.....K5o

exhibit #350 in why I can't ever fold sets...unless proven otherwise with dozens of hours of experience, we need to assume that all villains have spazz in their range
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