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1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy 1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy

06-06-2016 , 12:33 AM
Tables have merged, Hero ($325) gets dealt J2ss in CO and makes it $15 over passive HJ limp, SB (young guy, $300) calls, HJ folds

Flop ($36): Q72ddh
Check, Hero bets $20, V calls

Turn ($76): 6h
V donks $40, Hero raises to $100, V calls

River ($276): 3h
V donks $85, Hero ?
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 12:41 AM
Fold pre. Fold turn. AP fold river - you raised pre, bet flop, raised turn, he's still donking into you...I mean you could ship with reads to fold out a hand that's trying to set a price but this could easily be a monster or he could easily talk himself into calling.
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00t
Tables have merged, Hero ($325) gets dealt J2ss in CO and makes it $15 over passive HJ limp, SB (young guy, $300) calls, HJ folds

Flop ($36): Q72ddh
Check, Hero bets $20, V calls

Turn ($76): 6h
V donks $40, Hero raises to $100, V calls

River ($276): 3h
V donks $85, Hero ?
So confused about a lot of things.... A.) Why are you making it 15 with J2, esp when the tables just merged and you don't know anything about the new players? B.) Why are you leading out 20, then reraising on the turn with jack sh*t, no draws and a player you once again, know nothing about, who from everything he's repping, has a solid hand C.) Only thing you can possibly beat would be a missed Diamond draw, player already has $220 in the pot and only $80 behind him, so don't see you really getting him off of anything, so easy fold, accept your losses and next time wait til you get some reads on players before you come firing bullets into someone with a pair of 2's with a jack kicker.... or if you really want to see what he has, call, but repopping with a pair or 2's and him only having 80 behind him, seems pretty pointless and only way he's folding, is if he legit missed his draw, at which point, a call would do the same thing and save you $80.
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 01:00 AM
Just totally clicking buttons. I hate unhelpful feedback like that, but you gotta post your thought process to get any real feedback here.
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiseAnnounced
Just totally clicking buttons. I hate unhelpful feedback like that, but you gotta post your thought process to get any real feedback here.

No real thought process. I like to raise ATC except rags first hand to set an image. So pre flop is obv stupid.

Always cbetting flop HU.

Turn donk was weak so decided to raise.

River bet made no sense unless it's AQ trying to block bet. Thought he missed his NFD.
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00t
No real thought process. I like to raise ATC except rags first hand to set an image. So pre flop is obv stupid.

Always cbetting flop HU.

Turn donk was weak so decided to raise.

River bet made no sense unless it's AQ trying to block bet. Thought he missed his NFD.
So did you call?
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 06:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHTPA
So did you call?

Yea, and was good.
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 07:06 AM
This whole hand is an abortion. By the time you get to the river though, a shove is much preferable to a call. There are too many hands better than yours that he can blocker bet with and fold to a shove.

Edit: not sure how you read half pot donk on turn as weak. Seems strong to me. Also donking river after a turn raise should never be a bluff. Guess this time it was. Either you have a soulread on this guy or you got crazy lucky.
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 08:33 AM
If you want to set an image, wear flashy clothes and double shuffle chips. The money you save by not torching money will pay off your paisley-lined Blazers in no time.

Thought process on why you always Cbet here heads up would be helpful. You beat most the hands you fold out and there are close to zero good runouts to barrel. Should probably be at least mixing in some checks with SDV with 5 outs to trips/two-pair.

What about his lead seems weak? Bear in mind that doubling the size of the previous bet is pretty much the lazy live player's standard. Also this is the backdoor happiest turn, so you have looooaaaads of opportunity to test his meddle here.

My general feedback is that the main leak in these games is being too loose. If you're raising turn every time you have a hand worse than top pair, combined with cbetting 100% HU and finding any excuse to iso pre, then you are making it so that the proper adjustment is to be a station.

River is whatever.
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00t
No real thought process. I like to raise ATC except rags first hand to set an image. So pre flop is obv stupid.

Always cbetting flop HU.

Turn donk was weak so decided to raise.

River bet made no sense unless it's AQ trying to block bet. Thought he missed his NFD.
J2s IS rags
Always Cbetting flop HU is another mistake
Your turn raise was too small

This hand is an example of what not to do. You just happen to be playing a total fool. After this hand I hope you used your image to print money the rest of the session.
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 10:33 AM
I guess once you get to the river this way, it's OK to call, but you never should've gotten to the river. You'll often be beat by medium strength hands he's blocker betting/turning into a bluff.

Obviously fold pre. Raising with J2s only helps your image if you get to show down, and it's not a hand you want to show down with ever.

Check flop. Hard to fold out better here, and anything worse that calls is usually something like diamonds plus overcards to your 2.

Fold turn. Weird line for him to call flop then donk turn. Think that's rarely a bluff (results notwithstanding). Suggests the turn helped him (Ad6d or 76 maybe) or he was already strong.
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote
06-06-2016 , 02:32 PM
Lately I've been thinking raising to so much (relative to blinds) with such junky hands in obvious steal spots ain't necessarily profitable. I could be convinced otherwise (heck, I used to think it), but I just fold here now most of the time (although not all of the time, and now if I'm raising I probably make it $10 so it doesn't have to work as much to be profitable). ETA: I'd much more be on board with a raise if we had already established a tight image / we're playing with regs who know our image; raising cuz it's a first hand at a new table is pretty meh as our FE is just that much lower.

How comfortable are we folding to a check/raise to this guy and how aggro vs ABC is he? The more ABC, the more I would bet/fold 1/2 PSB. The more aggro, the more I would check back and attempt to get to showdown.

I probably just give up on the turn. If I'm not giving up (and I'm assuming we're not giving up cuz we're putting him on a draw, not a bigger pair we're attempting to get him off?), I'd just call him into oblivion.

We've shown strength on every street, and yet he still donks the river for a valuey looking bet, including when the backdoor draw got there (something it's possible he was on). I doubt he's every folding with these stacks. I doubt he's bluffing.

Gwhyisthispotsobig?G
1/3, Bottom pair facing river bet from young guy Quote

      
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