Basically V was raising ATC every single time it was limped to him in LP/Blinds to 5-7bb regardless on the number of limpers. He would also open super wide to similar sizings in EP, MP with slightly lower frequency.

The table was typically adjusting by limp/calling a ton creating big MW pots and then folding to V cbets/double barrels.

This V makes more betting mistakes than calling mistakes, and can double sometimes triple with air, and respects aggression (donk bets, 3bets). He won't be calling huge pfr opens too liberally either.

Given I was IP, I adjusted by 3b rag Ax and Axs (he snap folded both times talking about how tight I was) instead of just waiting for a wider value range. But I feel I could of exploited and isolated him more effectively.

However I had the idea that being on his left with the plan to l/rr maybe top 10% hands would be more profitable as I can squeeze 5-6 callers instead of one, and since V is opening so wide he can't defend to big 3bets even IP.

My proposed adjustment:
Have maniac on my direct left
l/c small pocket pairs, (and SC if effective stacks apply) to have best relative position in MW pots
l/rr Axs, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, 99+
With 100bb this SPR would force me to jam missed flops, and c/c or c/r flops I have hit vs V

It is a risk to be limping especially with good hands in LP so I'm not sure if my adjustment is too risky and exploitative for my own good

Thoughts?

My dynamic doesn't change at all with all starting hand plays... Which means the limp RR is out of the question.

I agree with opening up my 3b range to suited A, Some king combos etc. Other than this patience is key and you'll pick this maniac apart.

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1) start with range advantage
2) get sticky

It sounds simple but usually it works well for me. Biggest risk I see is people expand their ranges to match maniac V’s, which is a huge mistake, then play their standard passive style with $&@? Cards against an AG player and they get steamrolled.

**#2 especially.

You have to call down way more often with marginal hands that you usually fold when facing aggression.

Playing a wider range is exactly what a LAG wants you to do, since you will miss flops even more often and have marginal holdings he can barrel you off of.

Really good post. It is that simple. I'll add one more for good measure.

3) Bring money. Anytime you get in a pot with a guy like this, you'll be playing for stacks. Just because he hit a set or a garbage 2-pair, don' despair. Reload and keep at it. Unless he is having a hot streak most of us only dream of, he'll donk it off eventually.

If he is raising very frequently and very wide then I really like the l/rr strategy

Bet for value with a more narrow range against him and try and isolate where possible. Prepare for and accept that you will experience higher variance, push any edge you have for maximum profits when you get him heads up. Get position on him, or check raise him often with big overbets with the intention of getting it all in. Most wild players require you take a stand or he will run you over.

Most importantly, be friendly and encourage his play. Don't take it personal even when he gets lucky and stacks you a time or two. You need and want players like this as they will drive other players dead money in the pot when they refuse to adjust or don't have the stomach for the swings, this is a big advantage for you and will be very profitable long term.

Make him feel loved and welcome. Buy him a beer every one in awhile when you win a big pot against him. Act surprised when you a big hand, or openly say "wow, my luck this time". Always good to undersell your understanding of his game.

There's a good COTM about this ("Playing with Maniacs"):

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...ussion-812501/

IMO, every single new person who shows up to this forum should read through the COTM posts.

Grunch

The Jesus-seat is with a bunch of ABC bits to your immediate left and the fish, maniacs and LAGs to your right. You don't want this V to your immediate left.

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here but it sounds like you intend to l/rr-bluff this guy when everyone else at the table is aware and already looking to limp their strong hands against him. If so - that's suicidal.

If you're looking to l/rr for value/isolation then that can work because at least you're guaranteed a raise a good amount of the time with a maniac to act behind you.

Generally if he's betting wide but backing off when his opponents show aggression I tend to think he's probably much more competent than his preflop antics would have us believe. I'd certainly attempt to bluff him occasionally in the right spots but I'd be cautious about going for the big call-downs too light because my guess is that this guy will react to big calls from thinking players in much the same way as he reacts to aggression - i.e. tightens up. This means if you went to call this guy down light for 100bb+ I'd expect him to show up with a stronger than expected hand more frequently than you you'd like.

Reading other replies -

I see most advocate getting sticky and what I said somewhat contradicts this. Don't get me wrong - calling down light against bad losing maniacs is printing money. Just keep a careful eye on him.

If he's actually an observant and skilled LAG you won't get more than one decent pot out of him this way. Once he knows what you're doing the game's up and you just have to play aggressive poker against him, in position with a range advantage.

Basically if you mistake a good LAG for a bad maniac and elect to permanently cede the initiative to him you're going to lose. You've given up one of the two ways to win and you're letting him pick his spots and put the pressure on you. Hard for him to make mistakes, hard for you to avoid mistakes.

But yeah - if he's just a spewtard: make pairs and call him down.

I crush these players by limp r/r or C/R postflop. however PF you should not be expanding your range of hands that youre playing. When and if Villain calls, you will be OOP with a non-premium hand in a bloated pot - which is literally the worst case scenario against this opponent. Its frustrating to watch Villain bully other players, knowing that your A7o would have won the pot with top pair, but resist the urge to stoop to his level so to speak.

Play your normal tight PF range of hands, and if Villain is truly opening pots as frequently as you say, then you probably should not be raising ANY hands PF (maybe QQ-TT, but that's it). limp, Villain raises to $14, gets 4 callers, and you R/R to $100 ez game. It's highly unlikely more than one opponent will call, and when they do you are heads up or 3 handed with a strong hand.

Remember, just because Villain is playing wild and aggressive does not mean he is stupid. When he catches on to what is going on, and reduces his range of hands that he is raising with, then you can adjust accordingly as well. Unless the whole table is full of passive fish, his playing style is not sustainable and he will bust within a a couple hours. Be patient and make sure you are the one to get his money.

YUP!

literally see this every session all I can do is cringe and regret not having a hand to exploit.

In the big picture of vs maniac play, i feel like everybody overlooks a really fundamental truth. It's difficult because if you play straightforward, it's a preflop commitment game. And grinders hate that variance. So you range play him by waiting for your monsters because post flop with suited connectors is a nightmare. Then he wises up enough to not 3bet you on every street. Then you end up playing oversized pots with the rest of the table who hopefully opened their ranges more than you did. It's just not comfortable.

And what are you really after? Even if you isolate the maniac, get in there with KJ+ because that crushes his range, you end up fighting to isolate for maybe 60/40 advantages in general. Not bad, but not the best possible scenario at all.

The checkraise, limpraise, squeeze type plays with the maniac acting after you and you acting after most of the other players works so damn well because you're not actually targeting the maniac. You're targeting the regs at the table who are trying to take turns felting the maniac.

Given that "optimal play" is crazy variance pf commitment, i earnestly believe it's totally fair and possibly better to MATCH the maniacs range but target dead moneyfrom the other limpcallers.

For example, if you're utg, maniac utg+1, you limp, maniac bets 10bb, 4 callers because everyone's trying to get to a flop, you look at 810o. Squeeze out of position to everyone. You had a chance to see who called and they didn't raise. They read strength in the squeeze because ep. Maniac calls, everyone folds, you get it in against maniacs j2. Except you already have a 40bb freeroll going.

This dumbass scenario i just described is basically even money. Not just that, in my experience, you become the maniacs buddy, everyone else freaks because there's two maniacs now. You and the maniac can continue this dynamic except you're choosing your spots and the 810o was just an extreme example. By engaging everyone, the maniac plays less maniacally at you. He sees everyone gtfo your way from the squeeze. He starts doing the same. A lot of times i end up being the only guy the maniac folds to. I can do this once or twice an orbit for the 50bb squeeze or the 60/40 showdown with 40bb premium. You still get to TAG play your AA when it shows up.

It's the way to think regardless of your holding. And you create the dynamic where the next 3 adjustments from both the regs AND the maniac benefit you more and more. By the end, half the regs are waiting for rockets and storming out when they get cracked, the other half are afraid of you, the maniac slowed down and you've basically isolated him into a much much much lower variance match in pf ranges you'd normally never consider.

Target whoever is uncomfortable because they're the ones who make mistakes. Consider playing in the mud. It's basically using a maniac to unknowingly be your partner in whipsawing the rest of the table. I don't even know how to justify what i just said game theoretically, but I've seen it a hundred times. Learned it watching the best LAG i ever met and even he couldn't explain it well. It works.

^ provided maniac is an actual maniac and not a LAG pretending to be a maniac this will work fine.

I mosy recently did this Vs a guy who was playing preflop blind. I limp-shoved A9s for a reasonable stack and got 3 regs to fold AJ AQ and 77 and I double up against maniacs J5s.

Don't kid yourself it's always even money though - in my game there are plenty of old regs who'll flat premiums to the maniac's raise preflop and flat your squeeze. I don't know what their original plan is for the times they go massively MW to the flop with QQ+ but your squeeze certainly makes their life easier!

I already told you I'm doneresponding to you. If you continue this childish nonsense, I'm gonna reveal your super secret weakness.

That you earnestly believe every all in on the river in low stakes live play is the nuts because you just know from experience.

Pffft lmfao.

I like it. Your limp-reraise strategy is very good in this dynamic.

Woot your post is spot on. This describes to a tee the power dynamic I experienced just yesterday, and yes it can be insanely profitable to sit on the maniac's right.

Lyfao all you like but this is weak trolling and you know it.

Like don't I actually have to fully disagree with you before you label my input childish nonsense otherwise you're just calling your own plan childish nonsense?

Unless of course you're reading my post as a made-up sarcastic pisstake of your plan. Re-reading it myself I guess it kind of sounds like that lol.

Genuinely though it was a weird game and maniac was making his first preflop play blind every hand but would look if he got raised. The precise details of the hand elude me now but I remember the dynamic playing out exactly as you described above.

Therefore I was agreeing with you.

It's an unorthodox but insightful viewpoint. I appreciate it so thanks for that - you moody bastard

What range would you suggest against wide villain who is overfolding vs l/rr?

What range would you suggest against wide villain who is overcalling vs l/rr?

I got to play against the same villain a couple of days ago and got to his left and tried my adjustments

Hand 1 - I 3b A2hh from SB 75 after V 20 utg open, V calls 300eff
Flop 773hxx, H bets 75, V folds

Hand 2 - one limp, I overlimp KQss LP, V btn 18, limper calls, H l/rr $75,
V snap shoves all in 350eff total, I fold

Hand 3 - two limps, I overlimp KJo SB, V BB 18, 2 limpers call, H l/rr $85
V calls 300 eff
Flop AK3xdd 210
I check, V snap bets 75, I call
Turn 6o 360
I check, V snap bets 150, I call (should be folding this) and V scoops w/KK

It sounds like these hands happened pretty close together, based on the fact that your holdings were never that strong, but maybe you didn't get much.

It's striking that V came up with a counter strategy by hand 3. Might be a fairly cagey guy.

I like your tactic of limp 3! to take down all the dead money, but I would just pick spots for it. This is one of the rare spots in LLSNL where the concept of balance might enter because the whole table will notice and remember these plays.

I'd cut hands like KJo out for sure, unless you are running really bad pre. It has some blocker value, but plays poorly. So I would treat it much more as a bluff hand to use if you haven't made the play/shown aggression for quite a while.

Not only might primary V adjust. As someone else mentioned, the other players might now limp call premiums, which some of them probably do anyway.

I can't really fault your post flop play in the last hand much. I'd certainly lean towards V value betting by the turn, but wouldn't put him on a monster preflop. And at that point, you are getting pretty good odds. Might be a fold but it's not aweful.