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Old 01-10-2018, 06:44 AM   #1
6bet me
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1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

$1/$3 NLHE at Crown Melbourne.

Asian Guy (UTG) - Incredibly passive and somewhat loose. $115 eff.

MAWG (MP) - 50 year old guy, a tiny bit more aggro than the Asian Guy, but I still classify him as a loose-passive fish. $150 eff.

Hero (BTN) - Early 20s reg. TAG image.

Hero is dealt ATo on BTN
Asian Guy limps $3
MAWG raises to $12
Hero 3bets to $35
Asian Guy and MAWG both call

Flop ($100, 3ways) is AKQ with flush draw

Asian Guy donks $30
MAWG folds
Hero jams $80 eff.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-10-2018, 07:02 AM   #2
NewClintEastwood
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

You shouldn't often get called with worse and are usually behind when a passive player donks a pot, but you don't need too much equity so it's whatever. I wouldn't advise 3 betting with A10 against what you classified as two loose players so you kinda got the situation you were asking for. I tend to think that asian guy would jam pre with most of his mid PPs (knowing that a call would basically commit him) so I weight his range more towards big aces/KQ type hands.

Do you consider AQ/AK to be in the asian guy's limp range or would he always open those?
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Old 01-10-2018, 07:33 AM   #3
Nogyong
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

Preflop: With less than 40bb effective stacks, fold ATo to loose MP's raise. Stacks are not deep enough and these guys don't fold enough for us to profitably 3bet with this hand and get out of line.

Postflop: As played, even though UTG is described as passive, we can't fold top pair and a gut shot when the SPR is 1:1.2.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:23 AM   #4
Case2
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

Fold pre; fold flop.

I expect loose, passive fish to raise only with a tight range and to be sticky with it. That's a terrible opponent to 3b light, especially short.

Your RR puts 20% of effectives in. We're going to have roughly no maneuver room post flop.

OTF, incredibly passive V leads out with less than half PSB left. We really think he's doing that with something other than QQ, AQ, AK, JTs? Note that all of those have at least 2P (we have four outs) or broadway (we have four outs to a chop, except for the one combo that's free-rolling us). Even if he would do this with something like A9s, there are still way more combos that are way ahead than combos we're beating.

We have somewhere between two (effective) and six outs. V is roughly never bluffing. We're roughly never ahead. We need 31% equity to jam. Easy fold for me. And then I'd give myself a gentle KITN for 3b light against short stack loose passive players.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:45 AM   #5
samo
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

As played, jam is standard.

Nonetheless, pre-flop is an ez fold vs. a "passive" raiser. ATo is not doing well vs. their PF raising range, and bloating the pot at 50 bbs effective commits in a bad spot.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:12 PM   #6
djcl86
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

AP, I think jamming is the best play, as described by Nogyong. I agree that 3-betting here isn't the best play, but I don't think I'm folding pre-flop against the MP opening raise, I'm probably just calling (especially since you said MP is more aggro than the UTG player, as I'm guessing MP is more loose aggro pre-flop than post-flop).
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:24 PM   #7
Trumps hit
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

Melbourne straight is known as J10 off. Probably what you faced.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:59 AM   #8
6bet me
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

Results:
Spoiler:
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:53 AM   #9
ZuneIt
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

[Grunch] I think you overplayed the cream of the crop garbage ace hand.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:15 AM   #10
Chicagodude
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

After your reraise with A10 i don't see how you can do anything different there with that stack. Jam 80? sure, it's less than the pot especially after his donk bet.

I never like to 3! with A10. If it were me I would fold to a raise there or call but never 3. I accept that the new game is something i'm trying to learn though.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:36 PM   #11
johnnyBuz
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

Fold pre dude.

Passive guy raises preflop you instamuck.

You have reads. What’s the point of having a read if you aren’t going to utilize it to your advantage?
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:33 PM   #12
Avaritia
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Re: 1/3 - ATo against short stacked fish

Be as the frog in the pond op. The frog does not seek the fly. The fly comes to him.
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