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1/3 arguably spewy play 1/3 arguably spewy play

06-04-2018 , 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thamel18
Fold pre for the love of god. You're OOP to this guy once a round, why are you trying to play a big pot now, with rags to boot?
Holy ****

Thamel itt
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-05-2018 , 06:01 AM
Arguably spewy? Its no need to sugarcoat this, as other posters also have mentioned this is total spew from start to finish.

This is the kind of fancy play syndrome wave that Doug Polks videos and other vloggers have been contributing greatly to spreading around the pokerworld. And it is a good thing EV wise for other winning players,because most players including OP is misapplying the concepts and strategy approaches covered in these videos. Upswing guys Ryan Fee and Polk is obviously not playing 1/3, they are giving out some pretty high level stuff that is ment for higher stakes against alot better thinking opponents. These guys is sitting very deepstacked in 10-20 games, 25-50,50-100 games and so forth with tens of thousands of dollars in front of them. Alot of what they teach is simply not transferable to the lowest stakes without being able to tune it to suit 1/3.

Its truly fascinating, that still after how much FPS and overcomplicating things have been discussed on this forum for several years, its still so so common to be running into these traps. I will say this: if you dont have the full understanding of why plays/lines like this is bad OP, you are clearly not ready skillwise or experiencewise to implement plays like light 3 bets OOP into your game. Its an old saying, but its important to learn to walk properly before you can learn running.
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-05-2018 , 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRiverRat
Alright well here's my logic. He's probably raising 50% range on BTN especially with that sizing if not wider. Sure some LAGs size down value hands, but most experienced 1/3 players size up their value to build a bigger pot. So I'm risking $49 to win $19 which needs to win 72% of the time for an immediate profit. Let's say he defends by flatting a 20% range and 4 betting QQ+, AK (I'm assuming he does not 4 bet bluff often enough for it to matter). Take this flatting range for example. He folds 54% of the time (maybe closer to 50% if he 4 bet bluffs) and this is way wider than most 1/3 villains are calling a $50 reraise with (who the hell calls KTo at 1/3 vs that sizing unless station). I'm also assuming the chances that BB or the limper gets involved is small enough to not matter (although it certainly makes his required fold frequency a few % higher I'm sure).

https://gyazo.com/30bf41a1d543820f7ffc6bf1f6f60e56

How do you post pictures? Image link for gyazo always says image not found even with .img.

On the flop he has air more than 50% of the time and top pair or better just 27% of the time. And a lot of his air is just complete air. He only has a few gutshots.

So long story short, after analyzing this hand, I don't think it's total spew which is why in the thread title I said arguably spewy . I think combined with my equity when called, him folding 54% makes pre a break even ish play. And also I kind of got lucky in the sense that I got a favourable flop for my range as opposed to a middling one. I'm OK with the variance because every time I run a questionable play, I learn something. And also it helps my value hands get action.

My only regret is not shoving flop as some have suggested ITT because I keep assuming no one at 1/3 is capable of running big bluffs which although is true in general, isn't always the case. Here it's very unlikely he's fast playing his 2 pair+ and that's only 4% of his range anyways. His range is just so air heavy my hand is probably good and since he's getting the correct price to call with even two overs shoving to deny him that equity is important.
Here's the problem: As someone else mentioned earlier, if you're threebetting 65o in this spot, then your 3b% here must be like 70%. And if people just keep folding, more power to you. Unfortunately, that clearly isn't what's happening. The guy called and then attacked you on a fricking Axx flop. "Oh but this particular hand maybe I should have not believed him and shoved and then everything would be great" is missing the forest for the trees. You're threebetting 65o OOP against a guy who regards you as so full of **** that not only did he not fold preflop, he didn't even give up on an Axx flop. How is that anything but a recipe to lose rapidly? All the super sick reads in the world will not save you in that spot, you're just going to flop nothing so often.
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-05-2018 , 06:18 AM
Also can you not hotlink your image like this?



Quote to see how. Right click, copy image address (Chrome) to get the .png link.
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-05-2018 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
Arguably spewy? Its no need to sugarcoat this, as other posters also have mentioned this is total spew from start to finish.

This is the kind of fancy play syndrome wave that Doug Polks videos and other vloggers have been contributing greatly to spreading around the pokerworld. And it is a good thing EV wise for other winning players,because most players including OP is misapplying the concepts and strategy approaches covered in these videos. Upswing guys Ryan Fee and Polk is obviously not playing 1/3, they are giving out some pretty high level stuff that is ment for higher stakes against alot better thinking opponents. These guys is sitting very deepstacked in 10-20 games, 25-50,50-100 games and so forth with tens of thousands of dollars in front of them. Alot of what they teach is simply not transferable to the lowest stakes without being able to tune it to suit 1/3.

Its truly fascinating, that still after how much FPS and overcomplicating things have been discussed on this forum for several years, its still so so common to be running into these traps. I will say this: if you dont have the full understanding of why plays/lines like this is bad OP, you are clearly not ready skillwise or experiencewise to implement plays like light 3 bets OOP into your game. Its an old saying, but its important to learn to walk properly before you can learn running.
you have a fundamental misunderstanding on the upswing strategy.
1. Upswing doesn’t advocate 3 betting out of the small blind with 56o
2. Upswing doesn’t advocate c-betting this hand on this board.
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-05-2018 , 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusMcrae
you have a fundamental misunderstanding on the upswing strategy.
1. Upswing doesn’t advocate 3 betting out of the small blind with 56o
2. Upswing doesn’t advocate c-betting this hand on this board.
Exactly: notice my point on most people misapplying concepts they are getting from Polk and his crew. I am not misunderstanding anything, i know that Polk doesent advocate 3 betting from the SB with garbage like 5-6 off.

Also, dont go into the trap of thinking i dont think Upswing guys give out good proper strategy advice. Because i think they do, but for the right people at the right levels-wich often isnt guys at 1/3 who havent beat the game yet for any significant samplesize. They often lack the proper foundation in their game (good solid fundamentals pinned down in all areas of their game), and therefor also vastly misapply concepts that are way above their current skillevel. Its like trying to build a solid house without a solid groundwall in the bottom.

Their strategy is in my opinion mostly aimed at good solid winning grinders who wants to take their game to the next level.
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-05-2018 , 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
Holy ****

Thamel itt
Hi Ava, been awhile.
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-05-2018 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trucdouf
Being IP completely changes everything. OOP 3betting and leading with a bluff is what everyone is hating.

IP, this same line would be ok.

Think of it like drinking milk a week before expiration (IP) vs a week after expiration (OOP).
Your milk explanation cleared it up for me
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-05-2018 , 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
Exactly: notice my point on most people misapplying concepts they are getting from Polk and his crew. I am not misunderstanding anything, i know that Polk doesent advocate 3 betting from the SB with garbage like 5-6 off.

Also, dont go into the trap of thinking i dont think Upswing guys give out good proper strategy advice. Because i think they do, but for the right people at the right levels-wich often isnt guys at 1/3 who havent beat the game yet for any significant samplesize. They often lack the proper foundation in their game (good solid fundamentals pinned down in all areas of their game), and therefor also vastly misapply concepts that are way above their current skillevel. Its like trying to build a solid house without a solid groundwall in the bottom.

Their strategy is in my opinion mostly aimed at good solid winning grinders who wants to take their game to the next level.
I apologize for misunderstanding your point.
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-05-2018 , 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishsoup
Your milk explanation cleared it up for me
Lol, that milk comparison cracked me up to.

Gus: no problem man.
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-05-2018 , 03:01 PM
Petrucci,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
This is the kind of fancy play syndrome wave that Doug Polks videos and other vloggers have been contributing greatly to spreading around the pokerworld. And it is a good thing EV wise for other winning players,because most players including OP is misapplying the concepts and strategy approaches covered in these videos.
Yep. I profile most opponents in small NL games into two main buckets. Idiots that I can value bet to death and over-FPS guys who will spew it all off.
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote
06-06-2018 , 02:11 AM
Glad you guys appreciated the milk analogy lol :beer:
1/3 arguably spewy play Quote

      
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