Hi All,

I was up around $300 at MGM National Harbor when the following hand happened.

Villain was raising a good amount of pots pre as of late, and would bet big post, usually on multiple streets.

Villain in EP raises to 15, hero calls in LP with AK

Flop A56

Villain bets $40, hero calls.

Turn: 3:diamond

Villain bets $60, hero calls.

River: 2

Villain bets $150, hero???

Appreciate your comments on all streets including pre. Thank you!!

1) You say he raises alot pre and bet big post. But exactly how do you gauge his frequenzies? Like is he firing one big barrell usually? Does he double or triple barrell alot like he did in this hand? Or is this the first time he is triple barrelling big post that youve seen? The answers to these questions i very important when it comes to how we range him in this spot.

2) What are you looking to exploit with flatting pre with AK suited? I guess you are looking to exploit his tendency to fire huge bets post by underrepping your hand with just a flat pre. You could also very well choose to punish him for opening alot of pots pre by 3 betting him with a premium like AK suited. Would make it around 50-60 pre if i was gonna 3 bet. If you are playing around 200 BB deep i dont mind a flat at all in position though to keep his range wide and very possibly get him to valueown himself post on favourable boards where you both flop top pair hands.

I like how you played the hand against this V type as he can value own himself the whole way.

River bet isn't that big as pot is $230 already so not even 3/4. Sucks if he has a 4, but I think you are good plenty here.

Thanks Petrucci and great points. I saw villain barrel flop and turn once and get a fold, barrel flop, turn and check-showdown river (mucked), and flop/turn/river and get a fold.

I am also asking myself whether it is better to reraise vs aggro preflop villains to narrow their range / make them valuetown themselves with my superior hand, or reraise for value. Seems like the latter would have made this hand easier to play and in general with aggro players (unless they go crazy post light).

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So yeah, it seems like he is barrelling off alot post even on later streets- and if so i believe we have to call even though its concerning that he keeps blasting off on the river even when the board gets 1 card to a straight runout.Not that we are very likely to have a straight in our range here, more like many villains freeze up and realize it is hard to get much value from worse if they have like AJ or something. But i guess this villain is capable of running a multistreet bluff with an airball too so with his described barrelling frequenzies+ we underrepping our hand with the flat pre i have a hard time see us folding.

When it comes to what kind of exploitative line we prefer against a certain villain it for me boils down to what is villains biggest leak. In what way is he most eager to put money into the pot with the worst of it: by firing bets himself or by calling/chasing too much with inferior hands. For some described villains its both. For this guy i get the feeling he is more likely to put $$$ in the pot when he is in the driving seat and is allowed to fire big bets post, so i think youre line of a flat pre is the way to go against this villain.

Even though if it didnt work out this time and you possibly ran into a disguised monster doesent neccesarily mean your line choosen was wrong.

3-bet pre to 60.
Without doing that, we cannot narrow villain's range, since he/she is raising pretty wide.
Could be Ah2h, Ah3h, Ah5h, Ad6d, possibly even 55 or 66.
Also, knowing stack sizes will help as we can evaluate SPR (stack to pot ratio).

If you're going to play the hand like this....then I think you have to call now. You're not really at the top of your range, but you're probably beating enough of V's range to call. I'd expect to get shown a lot of stupid **** like aces-up or backdoor diamonds, but still probably generate +EV.

You really gotta raise pre-flop though. Even if he is loose and aggressive, you don't need him to own himself in order to get value. He's gonna continue with lots of worse aces and worse kings. Getting value post-flop shouldn't be terribly difficult.

3b pre. You have a great hand vs a guy opening wide why not extract value now?

Raise turn. Board getting slightly scary might as well make a committing value raise.

As played snap river. You're under repped he could easily have a worse ace and be "value" betting. You lose sometimes to backdoor flushes and weird 4s but you win plenty.

Guys, you don't always have to 3! AKs pre. IP, it can be played very profitably by letting some villain's blast off while not revealing the strength of our hand, especially when an Ace or King flops.

The goal with AKs in position against a loose player, is to win stacks, not pots.

No it is not. The goal is to maximize EV in the given situation. Period. Sometimes that means trying to win stacks, other times it does not. Poker situations are not black and white...they are grey. IMO that is what makes the game so interesting and fun.

I agree. But then this river has to be a snap call. If OP is getting cold feet on this runout to the point where they're making a thread then they're probably best off 3!.

yeah it is. but ok, I'll play along.

You've been given a situation. How would you maximize EV, if your goal is not to win all 100BBs effective? How are you maximizing EV if you aren't winning all the money?

You're advocating a passive line of play that gets less than full stacks in the middle against V's strongest hands (the hands he 3-barrells)

Tell me how you're maximizing EV

RIGHT!!

Though I think the phrase "cold feet" is a little unfair to the OP. I think anyone would be wary of this line from V with only 1 pair.

That was my point in the post above. If you take this line, V is going to have a lot of strong hands at showdown.

We'd be alot better off getting him to commit earlier in the hand when his range is wider (ie. worse).

P.S. I believe effective stacks were $400ish. Thanks!

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Because some V's will not go to the felt indiscriminately with top pair. So maximizing EV has to do with how the Villain reacts to certain lines from us. Even aggro V's are going to shut down with AT on a board like this if we have 3! pre and called a flop bet. So playing that way won't likely get his whole stack.

Stop being so rigid in all of your analysis. What you advocate isn't always the only way/optimal way to play.

The lower the SPR, the more likely it is they will do exactly that. 3-betting lowers the SPR.

Why are you against that?

If he called a 3-bet and a flop bet, and we only started 100BB's deep....then he's committed. He can't possibly be getting less than 2 to 1 on the rest of his stack. That's what low SPR's do.....they force villains to commit with bad hands.

Yeah it will. We can get him to commit with one bet post-flop! dude....seriously....this is an lol-easy bread and butter situation at LLSNL. You 3-bet an EP raiser with a premium hand in position and play for stacks. If you aren't getting max value most of the time in this spot.....I really don't know what to tell you.

In this case it is though. But as I've said, I'm willing to play along and be open minded. Convince me.

You are advocating a line that A) Let's villain get to showdown with his strongest range possible. And B) Gets less than all the money in the middle.

^Do I have any of that wrong? If not, then I am not sorry for RIGIDLY adhering to the opinion that your line will not yield max EV.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me how Max EV means "less than all of it"

Good post Shorn. Cashgame is about winning money, not stacks or pots.

This is a sigh call/fold situation as I dont feel great going eitherway. There are a lot of 2 pair hands villian can have here. Given the history you described in the comments regarding the Villains prior barrel lines (you should really add this to the OP) I would call. And then as others have said, the whole point of the line you took when you didnt 3! pre was to get villian to barrel, so you really can never fold at this point.

I will make it really simple. With respect to the bolded, some V's will fold dominated Aces to either 3! pre or if they call a 3! , then a large flop bet. So to blindly assume that always taking that line with AKss against all villains will result in us always getting their stack is incorrect. I am not sure how much more plain I can make it.

Don't disagree. I think the river is a snap call AP.

Last post by me in this thread. I will just say that if you enter every hand with the idea that you should be "busting stacks", not only will you lose a ton of $ on your value hands, but you like are going to go broke quickly as well.

Under 150BB's deep the game is ONLY about winning stacks.

Seriously. It shouldn't be up for debate

Oh yeah and when V folds AT pre to your 3!, you don't lose ANY VALUE.. Sweet!!

Here is how V was described in the OP in case you have forgotten:

" Villain was raising a good amount of pots pre as of late, and would bet big post, usually on multiple streets."

Now that is interesting....this V seems to like to barrel? So your contention is that we should take away his willingness to do so by 3! pre (potentially having him fold weaker Aces and broadway's immediately) and then potting the flop when checked to because "Every hand played at 150 bb's and below should "for stax!!!"? Explain why you think that is the best way to maximize EV versus this specific player who apparently likes to bet postflop and often"bet big"?

P.S.- We aren't limping here...we are calling his raise.