1/3 Live 10-Handed (No Rake, Time Charge)

UTG open limps. He is loose passive.

UTG+2 limps. He is a solid TAG.

I am in CO with Ah Ks. I have $250 and everyone has me covered.

I raise to $50.

BB calls. He is loose passive.

The limpers call.

Flop ($201): 8h 3c 3d

Everyone checks to me pretty quickly.

Your play?

why did you make it so much pre?

The loose passives on the table were calling $50 preflop raises.

This is... interesting. I have no idea what ranges to expect when we get called with this sizing.

It's a clear check but I'm curious about the numbers.

If we give everyone a 10% range (which I think is too generous even for lollive) we have 19% equity against the field.

If we shrink it down to 6.5% (which looks like 88+, ATs+, KQs, AQ+) it plummets to 11%.

The worst part is that if we were to jam on this board we only fold worse hands that we have crushed (worse Ax, maybe kqs if Vs can have it) and we get called by all hands that crush us (all overpairs)

Just take the free card

^ Definitely take the free card. It doesn't seem like villains are folding an overpair here. Tbh if 17x raises are going 4 ways to a flop I would only open QQs+ with your stack size. Not advisable in general of course.

And I would limp/shove with my premiums in EP and MP. Should print money

If they are calling $50 preflop have to assume they are going to be super sticky. So you should be mostly fit/fold here and check. Odds are somebody has a pair and won't give up to a flop shove.

Once you show up with an over pair here a couple of times and people start folding to your flop shove then throw in some bluffs.

1/3 Live 10-Handed (No Rake, Time Charge)

UTG open limps. He is loose passive.

UTG+2 limps. He is a solid TAG.

I am in CO with Ah Ks. I have $250 and everyone has me covered.

I raise to $50.

BB calls. He is loose passive.

The limpers call.

Flop ($201): 8h 3c 3d

Everyone checks to me pretty quickly. I check.

Turn ($201): 8h 3c 3d 9d

Everyone checks to me.

Your play?

Otf i would shove, even if they have 8x or even 99/1010 they fold a decent amount since you’re repoing very strong and you’re shoving for a “huge” amount. You also have ok equity when called, also with 2 3’s out there they have very few 3x and less pairs.

Turn obv check u rep nothing

Preflooooooppoppopp. Stop doing this to yourself buddy. Good players have an edge post flop with deeper stacks. Might as well open jam if you don’t want to play poker.

Make it a reasonably big size over limpers but $50 is ridiculous and puts you in crazy low SPR situations like this where no one knows what the hell to do.

If you have to make this kind of play pre at least use made hands like JJ+.


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I'm surprised everyone checked to you here, but that doesn't mean they'll fold if you bet, especially since you checked flop- as you should have imo.

Crazy table. Yeah even if they're willing to overcall pf, guess AK still wasn't worth the $50. Save that for QQ+?

Then here do a more standard $20 preflop raise so it's not such a big loss when you whiff. On this hand, yeah take the free card.

No.

You're basically saying that if 1-2 people will call a preflop AI on average vs our shove and we have AK, that you'd rather raise a small amount instead of AI. I'd shove all-in everyday all day.

AK is a premium hand and is a clear raise for value. Just because it's Ace high and is a lol "drawing hand" doesnt mean it's not a premium. AK being a drawing hand is pretty nonsense.

Nope. I said open jam if you don’t want to play poker. I’m not saying “AK is a drawing hand” but it’s pretty naive to think AKo is easy to play multi-way with low SPR without making a pair. How easy would our decision be if we held JJ+ in this spot? AP, our hands are tied and this situation could have been mitigated by using a normal size pre.

So if you were playing HU and the dude was calling $50 raises with 50-100% of all starting hands, you'd rather raise to to a "standard" amount like $12 with AK? That's absolutely ridiculous. You're leaving benjamin franklins on the table if you'd do that.

If we had JJ, the probability of the flop coming out with an A/K/Q is approximately more or less the same probability of the board not pairing our A/K when we raise $50 pre. So your argument of using JJ makes no sense. We just happen to have AK on an unpaired board. If OP had JJ and raised $50 pre and the flop came an ace, you would also say to use a smaller raise size, and that our hands are tied because of our lol raise size. It's not about the hand. It's about expected value, i.e. our value in the long run. And of course having the stone cold nuts or 2nd nuts preflop is better than AK. Jee, thanks for pointing that out, sherlock.

Lots of extreme hindsight bias/confirmation bias in your post. Might be useful for your game to look up what those are. You most definitely wouldn't have said the situation could have been mitigated by using a normal size pre if we flopped a K or A, and gii vs weak Ax. You would have said something along the lines of or agreed with: "WP. These donkeys were willing to call ragged Ax vs your $50 raise and got it in with the worst hand."

The difference in the raise size pre is the level of commitment to our hand. If we raise to a normal size, we can see the flop, evaluate our relative hand strength and proceed from there. This means we can fold when we don’t hit and pound value when we do. Not like we won’t be able to get stacks in with normal raise sizes.


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Lol @ the preflop result. But I've played in games where this is standard, and is also why I typically recommend raising far bigger than most here. Anyways, if everyone is cool with putting in lol 1/5th of their stack when I have AK I'm cool stacking off multiway when I hit it, so fine.

As played, I give up on the flop. Pairs just aren't going to fold this flop and there's a decent chance someone has one given lol preflop, so I just take my free card and hope to bink the turn.

ETA: I also check again on the turn. No small pair is folding still, but they could still easily be checking (to call) on this board.

GcluelessNLnoobG

LOL at UTG+2 being a solid TAG yet limp/calling $50 pre.

Starting the hand pre w/ less than 100bb and having a PSB on the flop, I shove the flop every time.

As played, just check and hope to hit an A or K (or that A high is good!).

I like the 50 preflop if they'll cal it, i'll bet the most I think will get called when I think I have the best hand.


Flop is terrible, no one is going to fold any pocket pair here, you'd be able to get stacks in with 55 if you had a pocket pair. Feelsbad

Just checking/giving up when this many people call and I wiff. Heads up you can advocate for bluffing with what might be the best hand as it is.


Played a game just like this friday night in Baltimore. Standard preflop raise was 35-50 but people were making the raises and calling the raises with 82 off suit/ 53 off suit. ETC

Pure ****ing gamble table. Just fold and wait for aces then collect your money.

Can't edit my original post, but overlimping/reraising is also fine at these tables (especially if they are aggro preflop), but if we're getting in this huge percentage of our stack and still getting action then raising is fine too.

GcluelessNLnoobG

1/3 Live 10-Handed (No Rake, Time Charge)

UTG open limps. He is loose passive.

UTG+2 limps. He is a solid TAG.

I am in CO with Ah Ks. I have $250 and everyone has me covered.

I raise to $50.

BB calls. He is loose passive.

The limpers call.

Flop ($201): 8h 3c 3d

Everyone checks to me pretty quickly. I check.

Turn ($201): 8h 3c 3d 9d

Everyone checks to me.

I check.

River ($201): 8h 3c 3d 9d 5c

BB and UTG check. UTG+2 bets $150.

Your play?

What kind of game are you playing in? Where do I find it?

Actually, the game is not usually like this but I was a getting a lot of good hands and I was raising it up so they probably thought I was raising light.

Plus, a few of them were button straddling for $6. People would then limp. I would raise to $50 because of the straddle and the limpers. I did that a couple times so I thought they thought my $50 raise was standard. Therefore, I figured they would call $50 raises even when there wasn't a straddle. As you can see in this hand, I was correct.

I think your average 1/3 player does not realize how much the game changes when there is a straddle on loose tables.

LOL. He's the solid TAG who limp calls $50 pre? Fold, but your A high could easily be good. Seriously, it's a table read. What does he call with pre? Are BB and UTG definitely folding? (I would have shoved flop, so would not have to make this decision.)

The solid TAG is an old white guy who has made a few final tables in Pot Limit tournaments in the WSOP.

But I'm not sure how to use that information for this hand.