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1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher 1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher

12-15-2015 , 09:48 AM
From the 45 mintues or so I've been at the table...

$1/3 Tuesday night

V1: Aggressive, late 20s guy, capable of making strong moves because he check raised with air against preflop raiser but gave up when preflop raiser smoothed and then check/folded to preflop raisrs turn bet. (3 way hand tho). About $170 in front. Haven't got any history with hero yet.

Hero: Just sat down 45 minutes ago, I haven't played any hands...
$185

Hero picks up AQo in the sb, 5 limpers, including cut off (V) and btn (big stack), Hero makes it $20. Everyone else folds, V calls.

$48ish pot.

Flop: KhTh3d,
Hero leads out of small blind for $25, v calls

Turn: 6d
Hero bets $50. V snap calls.

At this point, his range looks more towards draws than value hands.

River: 4s
Hero checks, V instant shoves for $80, by instant shove I mean, he grabbed his chips and was about to instant shoved then paused, coutned them out... then shoved. But i saw the motion of a shove instantly crossed his mind when I checked...

Hero?

I'm only beating an air bluff. Something like a busted flush draw, or busted open ender (which i have the Q blocker).. I don't have any hearts in my hand...
He asks me if I have AK whilst I'm tanking... Suggesting that he can beat AK...... Which I personally perceived as being weak... He has table talked quite a bit in other hands so this isn't one of those, talking is strong type hands.

It's $80 to win $350.
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-15-2015 , 10:04 AM
I can't think of any hand that has a K an aggressive player limps with in the CO. This also excludes TT.

That doesn't mean he has air, either.

The problem is that you induced a bluff by checking. He probably bluffs all draws, but what can he value bet here? 33 or air, IMO. Call, and if you are behind you might table face up to show you're happy to call down light (unless you prefer to induce and call bluffs a lot).
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-15-2015 , 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienBoy
I can't think of any hand that has a K an aggressive player limps with in the CO. This also excludes TT.

That doesn't mean he has air, either.

The problem is that you induced a bluff by checking. He probably bluffs all draws, but what can he value bet here? 33 or air, IMO. Call, and if you are behind you might table face up to show you're happy to call down light (unless you prefer to induce and call bluffs a lot).
Yeah,
I didn't want to triple barrel because I had SD against all his busted draws and he prob put me on a strong hand and wouldn't try to bluff me... was wht I was thinking.
I dont think I can triple barrel to make him fold hands like QK/KJ (ive discounted AK/KT because he would've been aggressive in earlier streets, as well as all sets)

I was actually expecting a check behind when I elected to check.

I know I am inducing a bluff here, but imo, there isn't a point to bet river, other than to bluff someone off a stubborn 3xdd (?) MAYBE? I don't even know
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-15-2015 , 10:27 AM
If he's calling down a T or a 3, (such as JT or A3) which may include a draw you need to fire a third barrel. For instance A3 is certainly in his range, and has you beat. Would he turn this hand into a bluff? Maybe.

You check this river to induce a bluff and then you must call. Otherwise, you need to fire the third barrel.

You are never getting a K or two pair/set to fold. But you should be getting a T or 3 to fold, along with hiding your holding so people don't get the information that you bluffed two streets.

Hiding your holding is one of the reasons you fire the final barrel, and I think that reason is often overlooked. On the other hand if you fire that final barrel and DO get called, I'd almost always confidently table my hand face up immediately.

You'd be surprised at how many times people accidentally fold the better hand.
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-15-2015 , 10:29 AM
To add: I don't like inducing bluffs with A high hands, I like inducing bluffs with hands that are a little easier to call, the I.e. At least a decent pair.
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-15-2015 , 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienBoy
If he's calling down a T or a 3, (such as JT or A3) which may include a draw you need to fire a third barrel. For instance A3 is certainly in his range, and has you beat. Would he turn this hand into a bluff? Maybe.

You check this river to induce a bluff and then you must call. Otherwise, you need to fire the third barrel.

You are never getting a K or two pair/set to fold. But you should be getting a T or 3 to fold, along with hiding your holding so people don't get the information that you bluffed two streets.

Hiding your holding is one of the reasons you fire the final barrel, and I think that reason is often overlooked. On the other hand if you fire that final barrel and DO get called, I'd almost always confidently table my hand face up immediately.

You'd be surprised at how many times people accidentally fold the better hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienBoy
To add: I don't like inducing bluffs with A high hands, I like inducing bluffs with hands that are a little easier to call, the I.e. At least a decent pair.
That is definitely right.
I was thinking all Txdd combos would most likely call the turn too, and I'm not sure if he would turn them into bluffs on the river. I might get them to fold/ I might not with a third barrel.

Yah, A high calls are not ideal, I'd be way more confident with something like 9s rather than A high obvs.
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-15-2015 , 10:38 AM
One pair hands are likely to check behind here except maybe TPTK. Since V is aggro AK and most pairs 77+ are unlikely so that leaves 33, KT or busted draw. That's about 12 combos of valve vs 40+ combos of air. I think I will call here.
Another point to note is how did V play his draws in the past.. aggressive or passive?? This will factor into the final decision

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1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-15-2015 , 11:42 AM
its really tempting to hero in these spots particularly at crown, but ive found its probably more profitable to fold, because for the times he has air, hes going to have value hands which he played weirdly, as well as a merged range (even though, he probably doesnt know hes doing it). These players have little to no concept of SBV, so when you check the river, any king or ten could think "he checked so I must has the best hand" and simply jam for the sake of jamming.

given the price and v's line, i think this is really close. the crappier the player is, the more im inclined to fold (since they dont bluff jam rivers too often and dont understand SDV). and since its crown, thats probably the default.
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-15-2015 , 01:44 PM
I like the big raise preflop with this stack size to set us up to stack off with TP postflop.

Not a bad flop really. 4 outs to the nuts, our A and Q could still be good against a pair, and we're up against a bluffy aggro player. I'd probably check/shove. We have FE against smallish pairs and typically pretty decent equity if called. Betting just leaves us in some tricky spots UI when he floats the flop.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-15-2015 , 01:55 PM
In terms of nut bluff catcher we don't have it at all here. Having a Q in our hand sucks since it is a blocker to JQ and having an A is bad because it blocks his AJ. Also blocks AK but he never limps that pre so doesn't matter. If we had Ah it is an easy fold, since we do not it is closer. Feel like when aggressive players limp here it's mainly PP and maybe SCs, imagine we see 33 exactly here a lot. Adding in the times he bluffs with a pair I think just lay this down and move on.
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-15-2015 , 07:33 PM
Snap caw.
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-20-2015 , 07:52 AM
I stationed down.
V opens A6o, V mutters that he was floating to take it away if the flush hits and was trying to get me off AK by shoving river(LOL).

I'm a fish and tell him its good and muck
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote
12-20-2015 , 08:45 AM
When things like this happen I always get tilted for like a minute and then I realize that villain's ridiculous thought process is the only reason llsnl is beatable for heaps/100.

I think you played this well a and made a profitable river call.
1/3: Aggressive V: Nut Bluff Catcher Quote

      
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