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Old 10-20-2016, 07:40 PM   #1
abombshelter
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1/3 against rock

Villain is older reg I have experience with (probably 10 sessions ), is super tight aggressive. Aggressive in the sense that when he has a big hand he will bet 5 or 6x pre when unopened and 1.5x pot etc. very concerned about protection but have seen him flat big hands when it is raised ahead of him.

Multiple times I have seen him flat and then shove over the opener with an overpair

His impression of me is super aggressive probably spewy and has called me down lightish in the past with mixed results.


game is about 4 hours in, I have played relatively tight and shown down a few winners but got caught bluffing about an hour prior in a big pot, half the table is very deep 200bbs+

Hero: MP with KK

UTG+1: limps
UTG+2: limps
MP1: raise $15

Hero ($750): raise to $50
Villain($600): on my direct left quickly calls
fold/fold/fold


Flop (pot $126): Q29

Hero: check
Villain: $100
Hero: call

Turn (pot $323) 7
Hero: check
Villain: check

River: A
Hero: check
Villain $200
Hero: ????

I folded the river and he actually showed his hand but am not as interested in the river spot which I think is less interesting and more straight forward. I am more curious about this spot against this style of rocky opponent on flop and turn. My thought process on the flop is that I am facing a very strong range that will most likely bet when checked to and I don't want to bed and get bluffed off my hand on the flop. Turn similar thinking, but I am still curious as to how to get the most value out of these spots when I am facing what is obviously a very strong range. Thank you!
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:48 PM   #2
Railbird_1211
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Re: 1/3 against rock

You mentioned in your read that the's super tight, but will be very aggressive with OPs. Given that info, I'm a little surprised you checked the flop. You said you're worried about a bluff, but there's nothing in your read to indicate that he will raise you as a bluff. I'd bet $75 on the flop there, then bet most non A turns.

AP, x/c on the turn. River is a gross card, hard to see what you're ahead of here given he flatted PF. Fold is good.
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:56 PM   #3
abombshelter
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Re: 1/3 against rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Railbird_1211 View Post
You said you're worried about a bluff, but there's nothing in your read to indicate that he will raise you as a bluff. I'd bet $75 on the flop there, then bet most non A turns.
I misspoke when I said get bluffed off my hand. This opponent would be shoving for perceived value not bluffing but it is possible to be doing it with a worse hand than KK. I wanted to avoid a potentially difficult spot where he raises the flop. If I make it $75 and he makes it $300 or shoves, which this opponent is liable to do, I will hate that spot. His cold calling range is VERY tight probably AQ+ JJ+ and maybe AJs. He doesn't like to give up, especially against me and I think that range is very likely to bet the flop if checked to where I can easily c/c. I don't want to be in the spot to have to stack off 200bbs deep on the flop with KK's against a very value heavy range. Maybe this is too nitty?
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:38 PM   #4
Railbird_1211
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Re: 1/3 against rock

I don't think you need to stack off here, but by checking the flop you've ceded control to him. I think a b/x/b line is probably better. If he makes it 300 here, and you're that sure of his range, then the flop is an easy b/f.

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Old 10-20-2016, 10:49 PM   #5
Dream Crusher
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Re: 1/3 against rock

Checking flop seems really bad. I'm not really understanding what you are saying about how this villain plays. I'd expect that he would mostly play his hand for value and against a spewtard like yourself he would probably just call you down with worse and only raise hands that are better. What range do you see him raising this flop with?
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Old 10-20-2016, 11:43 PM   #6
abombshelter
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Re: 1/3 against rock

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
What range do you see him raising this flop with?
Pretty close to his entire range that he would consider value. He is not sticky, he is super tight and super aggressive. "would rather win a small pot with a good hand then lose a big one" mentality.

The range I think I can see him raising is AQ, AA, QQ, KK although unlikely and sometimes even JJ. Which is pretty close to his entire range that I see him calling pre in this spot with. So I can either b/f to a raise or c/c.

My point is that by checking back flop I can control the size of the pot and not lose a big pot against what is undoubtedly a very strong range while still maximizing value against the hands I am beating. Hows that thought process?
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Old 10-21-2016, 12:20 PM   #7
matzah_ball
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Re: 1/3 against rock

Why would you b/f when you're ahead of his raising range
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:00 PM   #8
bluffcity
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Re: 1/3 against rock

Sounds like he had exactly AQ this hand. I like betting flop and don't understand the check too much. He has hands you can get value from like AQ, JJ and TT given your aggressive image. Even if he doesn't, he's not the type to bluff his stack away if he doesn't hit, so betting also denies him his free equity. I bet 60-70 on the flop and evaluate.
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:11 PM   #9
pologuy64
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Re: 1/3 against rock

Bet the flop!!!

You make the hand tougher by under repping your hand. It looks werid when you raise pre and check flop. You open up to get bluffed...

Bad river, i don't see how we can call as played. Bet flop and bet turn, makes it easier to play the river.
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:33 PM   #10
Ragequit99
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Re: 1/3 against rock

So you think V will raise you with QQ AA KK AQ and maybe JJ. That is 9 combos that beat you and 12 to 18 combos you beat.

When you check flop, what is he betting? His whole range? I presume that is as above plus the 8 combos of AK as a bluff. Therefore you expect to beat 20 to 26 combos when you x/c and lose to the same 9 combos of QQ and AA. Obviously if he can have TT and bet it too then that's even better for the x/c.

If you're read is accurate then I think x/c to river and fold if he bets on an A is the best line.

I'm just not sure how accurate your range for V is.

Also, like Dream crusher says, the more sensible thing for V to do is call you down if you are spewey. Are you sure V is just playing this super tight aggro strategy regardless of who he is up aginst?
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:47 PM   #11
gobbledygeek
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Re: 1/3 against rock

Deep, our initial preflop 3bet is dependent on a lot of other things (how often someone else behind us might 3bet, how big a stack raiser has, our image, table difficulty, etc.). I find this spot not straightforward at deep tables.

I'm assuming warning bells are going off in our head when Villain takes a 3bet fold to the face. In which case, I'm actually fairly cool with how we played it postflop. AA/QQ crush us. JJ/TT are drawing incredibly slim and might not even pay off a bet or two (but easily could if checked to). We're crushing AK and will likely only get a bet by bluffcatching. KQ is unlikely due to combos (and likely not played by a super tight player). So like the only hand we're doing well against and could possibly pay off 3 postlfop streets is AQ (and super tight players insta-muck that hand preflop to a 3bet).

Does this guy ever bluff? I mean, we've shown a lot of weakness, but it just seems he probably checks back most weaker hands praying they're good (like JJ/TT) especially since we backed into AK and we're obviously not folding that now, bets his monsters, and the rare hands we were ahead of that don't check back just got there (AK/AQ). Kinda cool with our river fold too.

Gnicehandpostflop,imoG
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:54 PM   #12
Soner
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Re: 1/3 against rock

1. Villain is super tight aggressive (?)
2. Villain only calls $50 preflop and doesn't raise. (Super aggressive?) even at 200bb villain is calling almost 10% of his stack and he is super tight aggressive? I do t think so.

Anyways that eliminates AA,KK and sometimes QQ from his range IMO. KK is extremely unlikely anyways for obvious reasons.

3. Your image is super aggressive and spewy and he called you down lightish before (again super tight aggressive? really?)

However you only check call the flop with KK? I don't get that. Use your image and his perception of you and bet or check raise on the flop. What do you think he'll do with AQ against a player with your image?

4. Flop is quite drawy and he checks the turn after betting $100 on the flop? You have him beat IMO. No way a super tight aggressive guy is giving you a free card on the turn.

If checked I would check raise him and shove all non A turns if called on the flop BASED on your description.
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