Hi all,

Splashing around at 1/3 for a change. Have a couple hands to share.

1. Hero isos K8cc in CO over one EP limp, three callers.

Flop ($53): Ac-8s-5s. Checks to hero, $25, only rec in SB calls.

Turn ($103): 9d. Checks through.

River: 9c. V donks $50. Hero?

2. UTG pro limp, hero QQ SB $11, drunk action player in BB calls, UTG l/rr $75. We are $500 eff. with UTG and $750 eff. with Mr. drunk action. Hero?

Thanks,
DT

1. I would fold pre from CO. I'm absolutely checking the flop. I would fold the river.

2. Way too small pre. This is a tough spot. Considering UTG is a pro I'm assuming he's wider than KK+. I don't want to 4 bet because I think we only get action from hands that are ahead, so I call.

Hand 1: Flop bet is too thin 4-ways. Fold river. Minor point, but river is not a "donk bet" because the turn checked through. ("donk" means betting into the aggressor on the prior street.)
Hand 2: Call. I don't really know what the l/rr should mean -- I never see it in my games. Is this "pro" playing a limp 100% strategy from EP? If he has an opening range, then the l/rr is more concerning IMO. Anyway, I think we have to call. Even if he has AA we're almost getting the immediate odds to set-mine.

H1:

Always love when someone "iso's" and they go 4way to the flop. Standard result, which is why I rarely attempt to "iso" with meh hands. But with just one limper to us in the CO, I could actually get behind any preflop play.

I'm fine with the flop cbet when checked to us. Drawy board so not everyone will check-to-the-raiser in a multiway pot. Could be best and are simply protecting our very vulnerable hand. Could get called by worse.

Not the greatest card as 76 gets there. But against straightforward ABC players, I don't hate putting in my final money into the pot with a turn bet on a drawy flop that was check/called.

River really depends what you think of the Villain. If he's bluffy, then I'm fine with turn checkback to bluffcatch the river. If he's ABC, this is more meh.

GcluelessNLnoobG

H2:

Gross spot. I'm sure everyone will jump on the pro for limp/reraising, although obviously I think it's fine. Although since he's pro, I'm guessing his limp/reraise range is wider than the ~nuts, and that he'll be forced to play it more ABC if we call and go 3ways? Cuz part of me is fine with inviting the drunk guy along, and almost none of me is fine with getting in $500 preflop with QQ. And another part of me almost wants to fold, but I'm a nit.

GcluelessNLnoobG

H1. Pre seems thin for the exact reason that we're now playing a marginal hand 3 ways. If the table is call happy I'd want KTs here. I check flop, seems like we're getting a free card? Not sure if BB or BTN called. I fold river.

H2. Whenever I see l/rr, it's AA so I fold, YMMV.

I always love hearing about 1/2 and 1/3 Pros, because I really don't know how they do it

Some combo or all of?

1) Not pay taxes
2) Play huge number of hours
3) Don't tip
4) Have insane win rate
5) Can survive on a fairly low monthly salary

The only 1/2 pro I ever met fit every criteria besides "3) Don't tip"

I was a 1-2 pro from 2004 to 2006 and I only fit criteria 2 and 5. Of course games were awesome then.

You need to iso much larger pre. Hand 1 I check back, as played fold river

Hand 2 I call and take a flop but if you wanted to fold and not show I wouldn’t blame you. Have you ever seen him limp reraise without a top 3 hand?

Hand one is totally fine pre but betting that flop is burning chips. If we bet flop we have to bet turn large as a bluff. We block middle set and AK. Snap fold river as played obv

Hand two is just a fold unless he's the type to limp his entire range in ep and lrr's a lot. But I would need multiple examples of this before I'm calling here. We're oop and have no idea what range he has. Cut your loses and move on

6) Is a "pro" from mom's basement.

l/rr isos?

L/rr = limp then re-raise after someone raises after you and iso = isolate/raise after a limper.

H1 fold pre, as played folding river

H2 depends on my read and history with said pro , not deep enough to set mine so leaning fold unless his l/rr range is way wider than AA or KK

1. if you've been posting this long and don't kno to fold, idk wat else to say

2. fold to a l/rr. I don't see anything about him saying how light he may or may not be.

/

1. Is a clear fold, what is he doing this with that you somehow beat?
2. Fold. If he's a pro, he's presumably worked out that guy is drunk and will likely call him with a wide range, so I doubt he's ****ing around with 66. Perhaps it's some incredible play were he knows you'll read it as AA/KK, and will fold virtually everything, and drunk guy will call him with some **** like J9o, and so he can be wider, but I doubt that. What history do we have on him limping and limp/rr?

Tried to edit but it's too late

Why is everyone folding pre? Idk where K8s appears on charts everyone is following but it's fine to open it in the CO in a lot of games.

also please include bet sizes pre because mistakes can be made in betting which can cause a domino effect in some hands.

It all depends on your assumptions. He doesn’t have to be doing it with 66. He can be doing it with a more reasonable wide range, where QQ is still a favorite.

If I were to implement a limping strategy in EP (which is not a bad strategy at some tables IMO), I would l/rr with a flexible range depending on my perception and position of the opener. For example, a standard against a SB raise might be JJ+,AK, maybe AQs for value. Then with the caller in between on the BB I would widen that range up a bit. Against such a reasonably wide range, we definitely have equity to call with QQ.

I’ll always recall a hand from Parx 2/5 in 2019, I was experimenting with pure limping strategy in EP. I limp A5s UTG, and the tight 22 y/o kid wearing a backpack opens BTN to 20, I 3bet to 80, and he tank folds AK face up.

I’m kinda surprised no one said anything about the front door flush draw bricking in hand 1. Putting that aside, I agree folding is fine in both instances.

He's just going to have so much more Ax than bricked FDs, and we can't count on him betting 100% of his bricked FDs

Plus picking off bluffs is not how we make money in 1/2 and 1/3, especially for random players. They don't bluff at anywhere near the frequency where we can pick them off. The basic rule here is unless we've seen evidence of being able to run big bluffs (and I'm not talking basic cbets here), we just need to fold.

In hand 1, he's gonna have like 80 combos of Ax (assuming live ranges, villains love to play Axo), 16 combos of 65, and like 20ish combos of missed flush draws (and how many choose to bluff?). Fold seems like the standard play.

In hand 2, is Villain l/rr a range only consisting of KK+? He doesn't ever do this with AK? What is he doing with JJ in this spot? Just straight opening? If you're sure he doesn't have AK or JJ, then make the super tight fold I guess. But if you have any respect for the "pro's" game, I think you ought to call.

What were the results in these hands?

Results: called both, lost H1 to A4o and hand 2 to KK on ATA37. Has been a rough month let's just say so not playing my best.