Hero- 30 yo WM (300)
V1- young asian dealer (255)
V2- 60 yo WM (140)

H dealt AhAs Utg, H raises 15, 4 callers including V1 Utg+1 and V2 in SB.

Flop ($74) 542ddh

Checks to H bets 60, V1 calls, fold, V2 calls

Turn (254) 8h

V2 checks, H checks, V1 shoves 250, V2 snap calls all in for 150ish, H???


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I'm pretty sure you're beat here. I'm probably the only guy who'd fold river but I would in this case. With 2 players like that I think you're way behind one of them at this point.

Somehow in the hand people have way more money than their stated starting stacks.

Oops. Yes they had 75 more than i put.

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I just rip it in myself ott. You beat many more hands than you lose to. Standard for one to have a worse overpair, the other a diamond draw. AP, call.

With that wet a board on the flop I would recommend a larger bet. Turn shove smells like a set or trying to get the draws to fold. V2 snap call would lead me to fold

60 into a pot of 74 is a large enough bet. Pre and flop seem perfectly fine. If anything I would size down to around 50 (2/3 pot) on the flop, as this large a sizing usually folds out worse.

I would bet turn myself (around 140) and call it off if shoved on. As played, leaning towards a fold.

snap fold. I think it’s VERY optimistic to assume V1 is on a draw and V2 is calling “light” with top pair/over pair or something.
That’s the only combination of hands I can see you ahead on.

And his is why I HATE any small/reasonable raise UTG with premiums that goes more than heads up. With 4 callers, I have a LOT of experience with AA/KK being behind.

Far more experience than them being ahead if all the money is going in, IMO.

Really awkward stacks OTT here. Almost can't bet/fold so if you are going to continue, I might just open shove. Although I seriously might consider check/folding the turn after a 3/4 PSB was called in two spots on that flop. Just smells kinda stinky to me.

AP I think you have to fold. One pair can't be good often enough IMO.

I think shoving the turn myself was probably the play. As played i went into the tank for a long time. Whenever i go into the tank i should probably fold. I called and V1 had AdQd V2 had 76. V1 hit the flush on the river. I quit before i could tilt. At the time i felt like it was a really bad call and i was upset with myself

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It's absolutely the correct call. Nothing about the action rules out one player with a flush draw, the other player with an overpair. Both could have flush draws.

I’m more than willing to admit that there are SOME donkeys at the table and that the majority of 1/3 players aren’t great, but see my post above where I advocated a snap fold. And I play at MGM National Harbor which some people on here seem to think is bonkers action. If the player pool where you play make this call right the majority of the time, you must play in the loosest game in the world. Care to clue us in on what casino you play at with that player pool?

Idk why you think it's so crazy. V1 had AdQd afterall. If V2 had 8dTd, how do you think he would play it? What if V1 had Jacks and V2 had AdXd? Explain why you view these scenarios as somehow incredibly unlikely.

Turn check is a disaster. effective stacks are 80bb and you have AA. Board is wet, turn adds another draw, and only completes one hand. Not too many 2pairs combos either that we are afraid of.

If you're not betting here with AA what are you betting with? Do you only triple barrel when you flop the nuts? So many draws out there, your check allows them free equity and missed value.

AP it's close between fold and call. Leaning a fold but I know I call on some days

Somehow I think 8T is not going to snap ship/call $150 after he has checked and someone put $250 in after him. MUCH more likely to be a made hand than a draw at that point.

I’m not saying those scenarios are “incredibly” unlikely. Just unlikely in the majority of circumstances, in my opinion.

Even in the title, he says that V2 is an OMC. Then “60 year old WM” in the body.

In the hand description he then says that an OMC, 60 year old WM “snap calls” an all in. MAYBE on the flop a OMC 60 year old WM snap calls an all in with he two hands you describe above (which would be the absolute top of his range) but for the most part, I read a snap call by an OMC as a very strong hand. Especially on the turn, where to me, the chances of the OMC being on a draw are lower than on the flop.

But obviously that’s just based on my experience. I don’t see too many OMC snap calling all in draws on the turn.

This is a close spot, I could go either way on it. I usually fold when I'm on the fence like this. Snap call from 60 year old WG is gross.

The size on the flop looks ok, you could go bigger because the fd's are going to have overs to the board, and nfd will have the gutshot, so you can get a lot more value. Betting pot or more makes this a much tougher call with a draw. If the players behind are too aggressive (they attack low boards) you can also consider crai.

Wat. Who would fold top pair and flush draw getting almost 3:1 ott?

I agree and this is why i was irritated with my inability to fold, especially after tanking for so long. In the past i believe i had mental game leaks that prevented me from laying down big hands in situations where i felt i was beat. OMC wasnt as nitty as i thought since he turned up 76o.
I do think that checking turn was a mistake but at the time i thought there was a good chance that V1 would shove with some draws that he might fold to a turn shove. I work at this cardroom with v1 and think he has some degenerate tendencies. If V2 had folded i would have confidently called.

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Btw, if V1 turns JJ faceup, V2 turns a set faceup, then you have to call, because you will win the $115 sidepot 95% of the time and about 14% of the time you will win it all. I haven't checked, but call may still be profitable even if V1 has a flush draw and V2 has a set.

Many people. I just think making the assumption that BOTH have draws often enough to consider GII here with AA is likely a mistake LT. Sure, its possible, but I think the % of times we are facing a made hand and a draw are way higher than the times we are facing 2 draws.

Ime no one folds pair + flush draw at that price. It would certainly be a mistake to do so, and if anything people err the other way with those hands, calling too wide with them. I agree with the rest of your post, but the "made hand" can be an overpair on this board. V2 is less likely to have an overpair (QQ is very possible for him though), but I expect V1 to play TT-JJ exactly this way ~100% of the time.

Super easy limp/reraise for me preflop at loose tables like this. Preflop result is nut low, imo (very multiway, giving everyone good IO, and meanwhile we'll likely have to stack off postflop given the low SPR), but others will disagree.

I sometimes check the flop to evaluate who / what stack / etc. does what. In this low SPR of a pot on this drawy a board, if I'm betting I probably just close my eyes and bet large to never fold and setup a safe turn shove.

Pretty craptastic turn card as everything got there and it's possible we were already behind. Not getting the odds to chase our outs, and seems unlikey we're ahead, so I probably sigh fold. The only tricky thing is that V1 could perhaps have a big overpair (being the first EP caller of the raise) and V2 might still have a draw; depends on stack sizes (which seem wonky at this point).

ETA: I thought turn brought in the flush; my bad. Shoulda jammed ourselves.

GcluelessNLnoobG

GG do you ever limp/rr hands that aren't top 5%?

Likely something like AQs is near the bottom of my range (opponent dependent of course). Doesn't matter though as (a) taking down huge dead money preflop and avoiding difficult postflop spots is fine (for me at least) and (b) my limp/reraises get called enough where I only need to play powerhouses.

Yesterday I was first to call an EP $20 raise with AKs, 2 more calls, a gambooley shortstack of $120 goes all-in, the raiser just calls, I shove for $250, folds to her and she calls. Gambooley has A6o, raiser/caller has 33. So for similar reasons, there is no reason to get remotely out-of-line with limp/reraising if that's the action you can get.

GimoG