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1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw 1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw

05-21-2015 , 03:13 PM
MP - seems to be fairly tight, straightforward solid player, most likely perceives hero to be similarly tight, straightforward.

MP raised to 12. Folds to Hero in BB who looks down at A4dd and calls.

Flop ($23) 357 (2 diamonds). Hero checks, V bets 15, hero raises to 45, V calls.

Turn ($111) Ah.

Hero bets 65, V folds.

Thoughts on any/all streets? I think heads up against this type of villain this is probably a bad call. I think I overvalue suited aces in situations like this and it probably costs me money in the long run. Based on the way he played the hand I think it's likely he had 88-KK.
1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw Quote
05-21-2015 , 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelo1
MP - seems to be fairly tight, straightforward solid player, most likely perceives hero to be similarly tight, straightforward.

MP raised to 12. Folds to Hero in BB who looks down at A4dd and calls.

Flop ($23) 357 (2 diamonds). Hero checks, V bets 15, hero raises to 45, V calls.

Turn ($111) Ah.

Hero bets 65, V folds.

Thoughts on any/all streets? I think heads up against this type of villain this is probably a bad call. I think I overvalue suited aces in situations like this and it probably costs me money in the long run. Based on the way he played the hand I think it's likely he had 88-KK.
Yeah, it would be more standard to fold pre.

How strong is A4 suited:
About a 17% chance of hitting the ace on the flop, although you have to be very careful of being outkicked.

3% chance of having either trips or two pair after the flop.

11% chance of flopping a flush draw.

1% chance of flopping a flush.

You have a very slim chance of getting the straight BTW but I don't have the numbers right at my fingertips.

You're definitely behind a stronger hand and out of position. Not sure it's worth paying for that privilege.

Did you know your check-raise on the flop was a semi-bluff?
1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw Quote
05-21-2015 , 03:27 PM
Preflop is a fold. Even deep this won't be profitable. Catching the ace will often get you in a lot of trouble and it's hard to make money on flush draws OOP heads up. Flop is OK with a flush draw, over card and gut shot straight draw as long as your not trying to habitually check/raise.

Leading turn is a mistake in general. You will get called by better and fold out worse, better to check/call most of the time.
1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw Quote
05-21-2015 , 03:34 PM
He's double-gutted.

+1 to fold pre.

I also check turn to induce bluffs from KK-88. You're pretty much never getting a better hand to fold there.
1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw Quote
05-21-2015 , 03:45 PM
Let the donkey do the pulling. You have most of the outs so no need to push V out with an obviously weaker hand. I like mainly check calls and then betting appropriately on the river. The problem is you literally have almost all the outs and they aren't hidden outs being in the blind and a low flop. Give V a chance to bluff.
1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw Quote
05-21-2015 , 03:59 PM
Unless you are sitting crazy deep and opponent is someone who will get in crazy deep stacks when the obvious nut flush is out there, I can't possibly see how preflop can ever be a call. HU OOP without initiative with a very speculative (and dominated) hand, yuck. Easy fold for me.

Flop play depends on remaining stacks. With smallish stacks, we could check/shove to exercise our FE (cuz even though we are a slight favourite against TP hands, it is actually more profitable if they forfeit their equity in this "large" pot). With huge stacks we could perhaps just bet out to build a pot with more than our fair share of equity. The one problem with check/raising with medium stacks is that if we get called we are often left in no man's land when we whiff the turn OOP.

As played on the turn, I would check it. He called the preflop check/raise, so this tends to suggest he has a big overpair. Is he going to call 2 more streets with KK/etc. now that an A has shown up too (let alone the fact he could have been crushed on the flop)? I doubt it. We also really don't fear any draw killing our hand. I check/call, expecting the turn to check thru lots and then I go for one more street of value on the river (where it will often look we are betting a busted draw).

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw Quote
05-21-2015 , 04:28 PM
Sorry, forgot to mention effective stacks were about $300.

I agree with the consensus that I should have thrown the hand away before the flop, probably something I would usually fold in this situation but felt like getting a little out of line here.

Great analysis GG, I've read a bunch of your posts and have a lot of respect for how you approach the game. On the turn I was pretty confident that my hand was good, and I also thought it was unlikely V would bet if I checked, but should have realized at the time that a turn check and river bet would give me a better chance at getting some more value out of the hand.

Thanks everyone for all your thoughts on the hand!
1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw Quote
05-21-2015 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelo1
MP - seems to be fairly tight, straightforward solid player, most likely perceives hero to be similarly tight, straightforward.

MP raised to 12. Folds to Hero in BB who looks down at A4dd and calls.

Flop ($23) 357 (2 diamonds). Hero checks, V bets 15, hero raises to 45, V calls.

Turn ($111) Ah.

Hero bets 65, V folds.

Thoughts on any/all streets? I think heads up against this type of villain this is probably a bad call. I think I overvalue suited aces in situations like this and it probably costs me money in the long run. Based on the way he played the hand I think it's likely he had 88-KK.
Fold pre. Calling raises pre OOP with suited A's without a strong read is a recipe for disaster.

I like the check/raise as we can get better to fold. We've got a lock on the hand with the ace on the turn so I would bet smaller to get action from worse diamond draws. As an alternative, you could check the turn and bet the river to get looked up by 88-KK.

Edit: Now that I've given it more thought, checking back the turn is optimal. He's got way more 88-KK in his range than he does diamond draws (KQ-KT, QJ-QT, JT rep 6 versus 36 overpairs).

Last edited by DeathCabForTootie; 05-21-2015 at 04:45 PM.
1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw Quote
05-21-2015 , 08:09 PM
Pre is meh.

Flop is good.

Check turn (V should be checking back this turn almost 100% of the time).

Bet ~80% of pot on river. To try and induce a hero call from pocket pairs.
1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw Quote
05-21-2015 , 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush
Pre is meh.

Flop is good.

Check turn (V should be checking back this turn almost 100% of the time).

Bet ~80% of pot on river. To try and induce a hero call from pocket pairs.
This sums it up good. Pre is probably worse than meh but overall agree.
1/3 A4dd in BB flopped big draw Quote

      
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