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07-23-2015 , 02:14 AM
Just moved to table no solid reads. I did see Villian Cbet then check behind turn and river on a semi wet board with a overpair, so I would put him on the nitty side.

Hand in question:
Hero with Ah 6c in mid pos I opened to $20, cutoff (Villian) calls button calls callers.

Flop ($65)
10h 2h 8h

I'm first to act, I check, Villian bets $40 button calls I c/r to $105 Villan tank calls, button folds.

Turn ($275)
5s

I ship it for $155.

We started the hand slightly under 100BBs as played, I think should of just shoved the flop and go for maximum FE but would love to hear thoughts. And please don't mention the slandered "fold pre"...
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07-23-2015 , 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedreamer101
And please don't mention the slandered "fold pre"...
Why? You answered your own thread here - FOLD PRE!

As played your check-raise on the flop should have been for your entire stack... There's already $145 in the pot. Jam $260 in there if you're taking the line of a check-raise with your NFD and overcard.
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07-23-2015 , 02:42 AM
Would villain give you credit for playing a flush this hard
Wouldn't you try to get three streets of value with a flush (assuming that's what you're trying to rep).
If you check shove flop, I'd expect villain to snap with 2p/set as he'd expect you not to play flush this fast. Ideally, you'd want to milk him, in his eyes.
I like your play but I'm not sure if villain folds 2p or a flopped set here (esp after calling your flop raise) putting you on AhKx.
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07-23-2015 , 07:23 AM
Your story of raising pre-flop and then checking that flop followed by a raise makes little sense, but It has "some" chance of getting trough. Not very high though. In general and long term this is a spew.
It would have been better to C-bet and double barrel. AP shipping OTT gives you more ways to win and is better then c/c. Is it better then check/evaluate/fold, I am not sure.

Last edited by a12; 07-23-2015 at 07:23 AM. Reason: Fold pre-flop.
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07-23-2015 , 07:40 AM
Fold pre (and I almost never make fold pre posts) for the reasons below:
1) The hand does not play well postflop - you would be much better off raising T9o or 86s types of hands.
2) There are no limpers (per your description) to isolate. So, you are raising to $20 to win $4.
3) You have no solid reads on the table.

I am convinced that open is more than $10 -EV under the circumstances

As played, check/raise to $180 (if you think it will appear stronger than a shove) or just check-shove. While your line represents more strength to a thinking opponent, villain likely does not fit that description. In that case, you just priced him in with TxJh/TxQh/Tx9h/9x9h types of hands.
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07-23-2015 , 08:09 AM
Pre is terrible.
Checking flop isn't great. It's a bad board to c bet but your line is off to check raise small. Is that how you'd play the nut flush here? Even a small flush? Bet/bet/bet might be a better line.
What range do you put V on? He called a raise pre and has position on you. You describe him as 'on the nitty side.' He's not folding a set here or a hand like KK or QQ w a heart so your check raise is probably a low percentage play esp bc you made it so small.
Pre is bad. Flop is bad. Shipping turn might work but nitty is calling you with an overpair to the board if he has a heart, and w all sets and made flushes. So you're not in great shape.
If you just moved to table and have no reads, why are you steaming chips pre with A6o in middle position? Why not play a lap and get a handle on Vs before gambling? Cause this hand, it's gambling, not poker.
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07-23-2015 , 12:14 PM
I would easily dump this hand preflop in any position (other than perhaps the Button with no more than one limper). It's just too early to attempt to thin the field with this horrible hand, imo.

I would probably just cbet 1/2 PSB. A lot of people will lay down their pairs on a 3-to-a-flush board for cheap, we can fold out other better hands (such as better Ax), otherwise we just gave ourselves decent 3:1 odds to chase our nut flush draw + over. As played, I'm not exactly thrilled when the nitty guy bets. Our implied odds are obviously sucky as we're not going to get paid off check/calling when the 4-to-a-flush comes. But I'm also not in love with our FE against a nit who has decided to bet this flop. Wish we hadda cbet.

When nits decide to bet flops (especially scary ones like this one), I assume my FE is fairly low. So I think postflop (as well as preflop) is pretty spewy.

GimoG
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07-23-2015 , 12:49 PM
This is classic. So you don't want to be told to fold pre flop, even though you have zero reads with an easily dominated hand. Why bother getting involved with this hand at a new table? Do you think raising pre is better than folding pre?

If your question is about the line you took I think it's pure spew without any real concrete reads to back up your thought process. What hands do we think call flop but fold turn?

On the flop there is 65 in the pot, we have a bet and a cal of 40 making the pot 145 with our call I would make the pot 185. We are getting a pretty decent immediate price to draw to our hand. The problem is we have like 0 implied odds with a 4 flush on the board. I think flatting flop is far better than check raising so small. We have Zero fold equity With that sizing.
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07-23-2015 , 01:04 PM
As Limon once said (paraphrasing), "Don't ask me why I was drunk behind the wheel and crashed the car and killed the hooker that was riding with me, just tell me how to avoid becoming someone's bitch in prison tonight!".

Absent reads, fold pre.

AP, once villain calls, I shut it down, especially since there's a decent chance we get a free card on the turn. But really, the 5 changes nothing and unless villain is a total nit-ball, he should be calling your shove 100% of the time.
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