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Old 08-25-2018, 08:06 AM   #26
novice123
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Re: 1/3 8h9h UTG +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Hi all,



1/3 early at the bellagio.



I have the tightest image at the table easily. I am, however, the most aggressive when entering pots.



V1: he is playing kind of TAG/LAG. Probably playing too many hands , however, uses aggression well overall for a 1/3 player. Heís okay in my opinion. Some of his lines donít make sense and he got caught bluffing a few times



OTTH: I open UTG+1 with 8h9h to 12 (usually wouldnít do this here but the game is so passive and my image is good)



V calls in the B.B.



(25) Flop is 5c 6s 7c he checks I bet 15 and he check raises to 45



We are about 325 effective



I reraise to 135



Thoughts? Should we reraise here before the board gets scarier . Or just call and let him barrel a blank river?


I donít think thereís really a wrong move here. I think a little bigger flop bet maybe. Maybe 25 on the flop, you still get raised to prolly around 75-90, which would set up the shove.


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Old 08-25-2018, 09:42 AM   #27
sauhund
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Re: 1/3 8h9h UTG +1

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I count literally 30 cards (flush / 4-to-a-straight / paired board) we'd rather not see on the turn, and if he has a hand like TT you can up that to 42 (plus overs).

Gflattingseemssobadhere,imoG
thatīs a bit extreme.
for the sake of argument, if you were villain and had in fact TT, how would you play it?
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:50 AM   #28
ZuneIt
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Re: 1/3 8h9h UTG +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Hi all,

1/3 early at the bellagio.

I have the tightest image at the table easily. I am, however, the most aggressive when entering pots.

V1: he is playing kind of TAG/LAG. Probably playing too many hands , however, uses aggression well overall for a 1/3 player. Heís okay in my opinion. Some of his lines donít make sense and he got caught bluffing a few times

OTTH: I open UTG+1 with 8h9h to 12 (usually wouldnít do this here but the game is so passive and my image is good)
I like the o/r in this type table dynamic, especially when it's 8 handed or less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
V calls in the B.B.

(25) Flop is 5c 6s 7c he checks I bet 15 and he check raises to 45

We are about 325 effective
Ok! V likes his hand & we have a dream scenario. Only think that would make it better is if it was a rainbow board, although HU we need not worry too much about a flush draw, except against those who c/r their draws OOP HU.

I find that in LLSNL games, a c/r here is usually a 2pr+ made hand. If he has 2pr, he could be sizing his raise smallish to see if you have flopped better. If he has 65s there is no reason for him to discount you having 77, as unlikely as it is.

Do you !3 an over-pair here? I don't. Of course, if he's incapable of reading your !3 for what it is, then a !3 is fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
I reraise to 135

Thoughts? Should we reraise here before the board gets scarier . Or just call and let him barrel a blank river?
OK. So your !3 is an additional $90, 2x what he just put in. He's not going anywhere with a draw, because he's got the right implied odds.

So my question is: can he call & lead out OTT when the flush comes, when he has nothing more than top 2 pair, and how do you respond?

I think that this situation is one where knowing your V as well as you know yourself is paramount in making the right decision.
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:46 PM   #29
bdluss
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Re: 1/3 8h9h UTG +1

Just curious. Was this on Thursday? Are you from Cleveland? And were you in the 3 seat?
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:50 PM   #30
XXX555666
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Re: 1/3 8h9h UTG +1

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Originally Posted by bdluss View Post
Just curious. Was this on Thursday? Are you from Cleveland? And were you in the 3 seat?
Yes!!!!!!! Wisconsin??
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:19 AM   #31
bdluss
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Re: 1/3 8h9h UTG +1

In a Red Sox shirt. When I get a chance not on my phone will give some thought to the hand.
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Old 08-26-2018, 07:53 AM   #32
XXX555666
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Re: 1/3 8h9h UTG +1

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Originally Posted by bdluss View Post
In a Red Sox shirt. When I get a chance not on my phone will give some thought to the hand.
Awesome thatís so crazy we played the hand against each other and u saw it on here haha.

I think u are a good player and I know we didnít get too involved with each other overall.

I thought maybe if I reraised on the flop u would think I was overplaying AA/KK cuz I probably should never have 89 here especially how tight I was playing

I think u can definitely have the range advantage on this board given I was UTG and u were the B.B.

I think u had a lot of flush draws more than two pair?
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Old 08-26-2018, 08:11 AM   #33
friedrice88
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Re: 1/3 8h9h UTG +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Pre is still a fold.

Flop should be a 3b, lots of action kill turn cards
Ok, imagine villain is a good reg, try to imagine our range! We dont have a 3betting range here, if we do that we have so narrow range, i want to have wide range, for example we will call with TT-AA, even I dont know with what hand we can do a 3bet only with nuts str8, and moster draw, but our range when we do cbet is much wider!
The range of villain is also wide, he can do it any pair, any str8 draw, may be with even gutshot, i will let him bluff later streets when scary card will come for our range. I call ch-r a flop
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:52 PM   #34
bdluss
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Re: 1/3 8h9h UTG +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Hi all,

1/3 early at the bellagio.

I have the tightest image at the table easily. I am, however, the most aggressive when entering pots.

V1: he is playing kind of TAG/LAG. Probably playing too many hands , however, uses aggression well overall for a 1/3 player. He’s okay in my opinion. Some of his lines don’t make sense and he got caught bluffing a few times

OTTH: I open UTG+1 with 8h9h to 12 (usually wouldn’t do this here but the game is so passive and my image is good)

V calls in the B.B.

(25) Flop is 5c 6s 7c he checks I bet 15 and he check raises to 45

We are about 325 effective

I reraise to 135

Thoughts? Should we reraise here before the board gets scarier . Or just call and let him barrel a blank river?
Few things. First, yes you did have a tight image so it is good of your self awareness. Second, yes you did recognize I was playing an aggressive style (usually either opening or 3b when I entered most pots). One thing to consider then is how I would perceive you then as a thinking player. I pegged you as TAG with a good understanding, but also probably going to play hands straight forward based on your play and the conversation you were having about where you played that week and stakes/bravo you talked about in Cleveland.

Given your image, a thinking player like myself who is aggressive is going to look for opportunities to take pots away from you, but also call down as I expect you to 2 barrel in certain spots (especially in heads up pots in position). This scenario actually played out about 2-3 orbits later when you raised in same spot, I called in bb as only called and called 2 streets with AJ on a K J X X board and you just checked river and my AJ was good. So I think you have a decent understanding of self image, however, probably need to think even more of how that image would impact itself on another thinking player.

As for the hand, your bet of $15 is good IMO. I put you on a standard C-Bet or a 1 pair type holding. This is why I put in the check raise as I felt I could get your to fold most of these hands right there, or with a turn bet. Now question is how to respond. You have to consider the parts above and how I perceive you. Given how I perceive you and a 3bet on flop that looks valuey is going to look crazy strong. In fact, your 3 bet size here screamed of nutted hands like 89 or middle/top set. Short of me having a straight+flush draw I would never continue with any holding. Your sizing does not speak of overpair, you would flat these given both of our styles. So, what options remain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
Given your tight image and villains aggressive style trapping is probably better, I don't think 135 is a bad raise but I think villain will get away from a lot of hands and I don't give him much credit when for a smallish raise on this texture

I would consider raising to 90-110 and maybe representing some weaker hands

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Smaller size is not bad. I would even advocate for a $90 or $100. Make it look like a blockerish type that you just hope to control pot so I don't bomb turn. This might induce me to shove (not likely) but it looks less strong than $135.

Quote:
Originally Posted by friedrice88 View Post
I call his check raise, i shove here versus fishs or passive players, vs that kind of player u should call.
Ofcourse in his range he has a sets or fd, but also he has air in his range.

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However, I think this is the answer. If I do have the sets/FD chances are given we are at a stack to pot ratio of 2:1 I am going to bet fairly large on turn with sets/FD draws that hit or miss. Then you raise and I am committed and we just get the rest in. Now you can say that by raising the flop I still get it in with these hands, which is probably true, however the key to this is not those good hands its the other hands I can have.

I can easily have 2 pair, (which I would also bet 2/3 - full pot on turn with given most turn cards), pair + straight draw (given your image probably same size bet as 2 pair) or air/gutter/open end straight draw type hands (these given your image I would probably bet again like $50 in order to jam river for about a pot size bet). By flatting you allow all my weaker hands to continue on and use my aggression to your advantage by getting another decent size bet in. By raising to the size you did, you essentially force out all my weaker hands and only hands I am going with are strong combo draws or sets. These hands would bet turn anyways so you haven't gained much.

As for the result, your raise forced out my weaker pair + straight draw that would have barreled turn and probably check folded unimproved on river. However, if I did improve to straight, trips or 2 pair (or if board made a flush) I would have put in my stack.

Again like someone said, against 90% of 1-3 players I think your line is good as their check raise is almost always gonna be 2 pair + type hands. However, against a thinking, aggressive player 3 betting the flop with that sizing just screams of way to much strength and unveils your hand instead of conceals it.

Either way nice playing with you, hope you enjoy a 5 win Brown season and back to Dan Gilbert screwing up the Cavs .
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Old 08-26-2018, 02:38 PM   #35
XXX555666
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Re: 1/3 8h9h UTG +1

Yes thank you very much for posting on this hand.

So crazy you got to read this!

I’m glad u remembered the AJ hand as well haha the 5 on the river was a horrible card for me to triple barrel.

Very good analysis of the hand on your part.

I feel like I could definitely stack some opponents here given the opportunity.

Yes it was definitely nice playing with you! I hope you had a good time in vegas.

I really respect ur game from the short time we played together.
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