Hi all,

Need some help on this decision.

V1: this is literally his second hand in. He is mid 20’s. His first hand he raised and folded to a turn bet. He bought in for the max to start. This hand he has about 250 and I cover

H: I’m also in my mid 20’s playing very tight . V wouldn’t know that tho

OTTH: UTG limps. I limp UTG+1 2 other people limp and v raises to 12 in the SB one original limper calls and 2 other people call. I have 66

(54) Flop 6s Qs 3s

Raiser checks to us we bet 25 everyone folds and he check raises to 65

We call

(194)Turn is a 5h

He jams for like 173

Thoughts?

Thoughts?

Tough spot. 33 and QQ would probably bet the flop. He's representing a flush here, we still have plenty of outs to fill up. If he can do this with A, then it's a call. I wouldn't fold this with no history. Sucks, if he shows a flush, after we call.

Pre-flop, I would raise and isolate the limper.

Snap? You have a set. It's hard to flop sets.

Bet larger on flop, call the all in as played.

I think this is pretty close honestly. Your EV loss will be about $50 on the call if he has a flush and some back of the envelope math says you need him to have a non-flush hand 1 time for every 5 times he has a flush, which doesn't sound difficult except that:

1. We know from the first hand that he at least knows what a fold button is, he's not some maniac
2. I don't remember the last time I saw someone raise (especially checkraise) a monotone flop multiway and not have a flush.

He can have AsQ, 33 and other AsX hands but if he's aggressive he probably just leads them. It's sort of inconsistent to x/r them.

I don't think I have the stomach to actually pull the trigger on a fold here, but I think it might be right.

Call. If he has all suited broadways for flushes, QQ, AsAx we have the right price. Throw in some AsQx, or just random AA/KK or AsX bluffs and we are golden.

I’m not saying there is no situation where I’m folding, but we don’t have enough info yet to make this fold.

^^ This is pretty persuasive, actually.

Small pfr sizing given the number of limpers, so range could be wider than normal, including suited cards. Essentially a min XR on flop could easily mean the nut flush, while a smaller flush likely sizes larger to protect vs. a bigger spade hitting turn.

Nonetheless, no info on opponent so KsKx+/AsQx might also take this line. 33 likely leads flop, no?

Need ~32%, and I think middle set is probably mid-40% vs. NF combos and the above combos. Call.

I typically fold 66- in EP now. If we feel there's a good chance preflop is going to limp thru or that there are going to be some huge postflop morons in the hand ok whatever. I also call the raise knowing this flop is going to go 5ways once I do.

SPR is just over 4 and we have middle set. Even though I'm not in love with the all flush board, I don't see how were going to get away from our hand. So I would probably overbet the flop to like $70ish (where no one will fold a flush draw) to setup a turn shove. Not sure I like going smaller since I consider myself committed and also will never be able to fold.

Fairly gross facing the check/raise but I feel committed with middle set in a pot this size. So I ship it now.

As played I call the turn.

If we're not comfortable stacking off with middle set in small SPR pots (even on meh boards) we likely shouldn't be playing them to begin with. Much more reason to play cautiously had this been a limped pot ("don't go broke in a limped pot"), but this simply isn't the case here.

GimoG

We just saw a raise out-of-the blinds go 5ways to the flop. What do you think the odds are of an EP raise isolating anyone?

GattablesIplayat,notsogoodG

Getting 5 calls with 66 sounds like a pretty great result

Do you have any other hands in your range that you are limp/calling pre and potting this flop with that aren't a set or flush? Doesn't seem like it. That sounds pretty exploitable.

His reason to raise was to "isolate".

GcluelessNLnoobG

If everyone at the table is capable of exploiting you, then you're likely sitting at a table that it's impossible to win at.

ETA: And FWIW, I've already stated I originally fold preflop, with one of the reasons being that I don't feel most people are going to get paid off enough here when they flop their set at most tables.

GtablechangeifsoG

Bet 50 otf

Turn is pretty easy fold imo


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What are you going to do, if someone behind you raises after you open-limp, behind the limper? It depends on table dynamics. The games I played in, there's always a raiser, especially people in LP. Why not raise it up, seize the initiative get position on the limpers and blinds? Small pairs don't play well multi-way, so unless we hit a set, it plays nearly the same way whether limp/call or raise it up ourselves. Am I missing something?

What I was initially responding to was your original suggestion of "raising to isolate the limper" (so I'm assuming your plan is to get this ~HU with the limper, especially since "small pairs don't play well multi-way"). In most tables I play at, this simply isn't going to work, and it also wouldn't have worked here given the result (5ways to a raised pot, standard, amirite?).

As for the benefits of limp/calling versus raising it ourselves and going multiway to the flop, limping has the benefit of not being 3bet out of the pot. Not sure how having initiative with a small pair in a multiway pot is very helpful?

GbutIwouldhavefoldedthefirsttime,sowhateverG

I also have experience playing in games where someone in LP raises limpers very often. In those games, hands like 66 in EP are auto-limps for me, because if someone was going to raise behind me, they're almost always calling my raise, but the danger of raising is getting 3bet off my hand.

That does not mean I always check to the raiser postflop.

EDIT: Also, if you called turn this hand seems fine. I'm not folding second set before the river with no history here.

You started the hand with 83 BB's effective, and your not up against an OMC nit. I don't think it's enough money to fold. It's a lot harder to flop a flush than a set. If he has a flush and you don't fill up otr, it's just a cooler.

I call and expect to see AsQ or 33 here a lot. I would expect a bigger raise from QQ preflop.