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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 08-31-2019, 12:26 AM   #1
sdfsgf
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 420
1/3 2pair on 4flush board

New player so sorry if these points seem obvious.

UTG, UTG+1, and HJ limp. I raise to $15 from the BB with As8s. UTG and HJ call.

Flop Ah8h4c. I bet $15. (In hindsight, too low). UTG and HJ call.

Turn 6h. I bet $35. UTG calls.

River 2h. Action?

My thoughts
-on flop, in hindsight my bet was too small. I was conflicted because I wanted to charge flush draws, but at the same time didnt want to blow out worse aces. In hindsight a little bigger would have been better
-on turn, the flush gets there. However, I suspect that if I check hell bet nearly everything and I wont know where I stand. I bet $35 with the intention (initially) to check/fold river if called.
-...however, when the fourth heart comes on the river, I rethink things. I decide to bet $55 with the intention to fold to a raise. I would expect at least some low flushes to fold to a bet on the four flush. I dont expect UTG to have many Kh or Qh hands after limping. Further, if I were to check the river, hed almost certainly bet and Id fold. Im betting $55 into a pot of about $165, so this needs to work about 1 time out of 4.

Any thoughts? Again, new player, so sorry if this seems straightforward.
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:18 AM   #2
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32,931
Re: 1/3 2pair on 4flush board

Stack sizes are critical in NL and often the most important consideration regarding almost any play you make; next time list them.

Next time list pot size on each street so we know what percentage of pot is being bet.

I would have just seen a flop preflop. Bloating the pot multiway with a speculative hand / dominated Ace OOP is pretty meh.

Flop sizing is pretty stack dependent (are we committed or not, which we often can be with shorter stacks). I'd mostly PSB, and sizing smaller the less committed I feel.

Think I'd mostly just check (to call) the turn. The main draw got there. Facing a raise would suck. Let's start getting to the river for as cheap as possible and re-evaluate there.

Not sure what I think of the river. A bet is definitely a bluff, but it's possible our hand is too strong to bluff, but then again it is to weak to check/call a bet. Think I'm ok with it but I could be convinced otherwise.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:59 AM   #3
Spanishmoon
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northeast
Posts: 1,044
Re: 1/3 2pair on 4flush board

I don't mind the pre-flop raise here if H feels he has a skill advantage over the limpers. Otherwise, I think GG is right that it's better just to see the flop oop.

AP: bet more on flop.

Your turn bet is optimistic. All his FD and a gut-shot get there on this turn. What could he have called with on the flop did not improve on this turn? Perhaps only his weak Aces. So I think we have some checks here.

AP: He would raise his small flushes and perhaps call with his straights, Ax fearing a flush. So I think his call caps him here to a weak Ace or straight.

I'm definitely leading this river. We should have more Kh here than V. We can't call a bet, so it's the Clarkmeister Theorem in action I think.
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Old 09-03-2019, 12:30 PM   #4
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32,931
Re: 1/3 2pair on 4flush board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanishmoon View Post
so it's the Clarkmeister Theorem in action I think.
Used to be very familiar with this in my Limit days, but I've long since forgotten about it. Is this the idea of always donking a 4flush OOP on the river? Spot actually came up a couple of times in my last session and I couldn't remember what to do, lol.

GcluelessClarkmeisterTheoremnoobG
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