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1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board 1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board

02-06-2014 , 08:33 AM
Laggy UTG ($800) blindraises to $17

Hero ($485, tight image, UTG+1) calls $17 with JTo being IP on loosedonk (usually I fold there)

V --- Loose passive/non-bluffer ($1500, BTN) calls

BB calls

Flop ($68): 5s 8h 9s
Checks around to V who bets $28, Hero calls

Turn ($124): 7h
Hero checks, V bets $40, Hero raises to $170, V calls

River ($464): 8c
Hero ???
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 09:41 AM
Im deff betting this river a ton as I feel hes gobna 3 bet the turn a kot with all his sets. I really feel like A6 is a perfect fit for his desc. And betting pattern. With that said im leadind $220 and calling a shove.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 09:48 AM
River is terrible card but shoving is your only option. On river you have little more then a half pot sized bet, your not deep enough to fold top straight. Villain should check behind with most hands you beat. Lower straights are likely the only hands that bet behind that you beat.

Any other line depends on exploiting a particular villain. If villain never calls with worse but might bet two pair+ if checked too, then a check/call is OK. If villain is very nitty and never calls or bets less then a boat, then you can even check/fold.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 11:22 AM
eww. I hate the river. Villain's range to continue on the turn has to be sets, 2 pairs, 66, A6s, maybe TT, less likely JJ, and strong heart draws. I think that range is weighted more strongly towards sets and 66 than the other stuff.

Not sure if you can expect to get paid off with worse often, but as QuadJ said, with only a 1/2 PSB remaining, I think we just have to shove it in there.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 11:37 AM
Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but am I the only one who doesn't completely hate this river card? The V is described as loose passive. For any player described this way, I see way more combos of draws (especially on turn) or 1 pair plus draws as played than hands that beat us. V's flop and turn bet sizing seems very blockish to me, suggesting it's either a combo draw or a mediocre 1 pair that V's not happy about. It doesn't seem like anything that the river would change into a hand that now beats us. Like it's been mentioned, there could be a player-dependent argument made here for what action to take on the river, but you'd have to be very certain of that read. Absent of that, shove river.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 11:49 AM
We get called by worse quite often, actually. He has 6x here a lot, which is always calling the shove.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucere
Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but am I the only one who doesn't completely hate this river card? The V is described as loose passive. For any player described this way, I see way more combos of draws (especially on turn) or 1 pair plus draws as played than hands that beat us. V's flop and turn bet sizing seems very blockish to me, suggesting it's either a combo draw or a mediocre 1 pair that V's not happy about. It doesn't seem like anything that the river would change into a hand that now beats us. Like it's been mentioned, there could be a player-dependent argument made here for what action to take on the river, but you'd have to be very certain of that read. Absent of that, shove river.
This. In these low limit games people's ranges are very wide and will check call down what seem to be chopped pots
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 01:05 PM
The only reason river is a "bad" card is because it is a slight scare card to villains range which is highly weighted towards 6x

Shove
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 01:07 PM
Easy shove for 270 into a pot of ~400
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCake
Im deff betting this river a ton as I feel hes gobna 3 bet the turn a kot with all his sets. I really feel like A6 is a perfect fit for his desc. And betting pattern. With that said im leadind $220 and calling a shove.
Hero has 270 behind, why bet 220?
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 01:15 PM
We have a V blind raising 17 UTG and we're worried about our straight on a paired board?
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeakWetter
We have a V blind raising 17 UTG and we're worried about our straight on a paired board?
Seriously. I can't imagine doing anything but shoving this river.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 01:45 PM
Easy fold preflop. There are simply way too many people behind us that will wake up with a hand to attack all the dead money (and we can't call a raise).

I also call the flop.

I would have donked big on the turn. It already puts a scary 4-to-a-straight out there, so there's a good chance this gets checked around, and that just adds the chance of even more scare cards (for killing our action / killing our hand) coming on the river. I would make a big bet to $100+ so that we can make a <PSB on the river. As played, I probably check/raise more.

On the river we only have $270 left in a $464 pot and the most obvious draw didn't come in. Button is a non-bluffer, so no use checking to him hoping he'll stab at it with a busted draw. Just shove and hope he has a hand he can call with (i.e. 6x). We can never fold here, so if he filled up, so be it.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeakWetter
We have a V blind raising 17 UTG
I believe Villain is the passive/non-bluffer Button (he's not the one that blind raised).
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucere
Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but am I the only one who doesn't completely hate this river card? The V is described as loose passive. For any player described this way, I see way more combos of draws (especially on turn) or 1 pair plus draws as played than hands that beat us. V's flop and turn bet sizing seems very blockish to me, suggesting it's either a combo draw or a mediocre 1 pair that V's not happy about. It doesn't seem like anything that the river would change into a hand that now beats us. Like it's been mentioned, there could be a player-dependent argument made here for what action to take on the river, but you'd have to be very certain of that read. Absent of that, shove river.

I actually mis-read the read on villain as being "tight-passive", not "Loose-passive". River isn't great but he has a much wider range here than I originally thought. It's still an easy shove on the river, I'm just feeling a lot happier about it now.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Easy fold preflop. There are simply way too many people behind us that will wake up with a hand to attack all the dead money (and we can't call a raise).
Yea, can't believe I missed this. I was just looking at the river action

This is a really simple fold PF. We have a terrible position. Even if we don't get squeezed, we're likely going to be sandwiched without the initiative.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 05:32 PM
I shoved. V had 89o

Gobbly, isn't cc flop then donkbetting turn big too obvious? I wanted to make the pot bigger by c/r and yea if v checked behind, he wasn't calling big donkbet anyway most of the time.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 05:32 PM
Can we bet/fold $100 OTR?
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzypants
Can we bet/fold $100 OTR?
No, dont be results oriented. Ez river shove

Also fold pre
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 05:45 PM
Fold pre, bomb turn, prison rape 6x, as played ship river and get called by worse often, sometimes we lose to a boat but that's a small part of his range.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzypants
I shoved. V had 89o

Gobbly, isn't cc flop then donkbetting turn big too obvious? I wanted to make the pot bigger by c/r and yea if v checked behind, he wasn't calling big donkbet anyway most of the time.
Typically, the best way to play when we hit our monster hand on the turn OOP is to just go ahead and donk it. We want to build a big pot and play for stacks, and that's hard to do if Villain checks behind (which they often will on a scare card). Let them figure out if we've hit our hand or not, if they can fold, good for them.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzypants
Can we bet/fold $100 OTR?
You lose out value all of the times he has 6x and just calls..

A6s/66/56/76/86. That is quite a few combos that are calling a shove.

He has 10 set combos and another 12 2p combos that fill up at the end.
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 06:22 PM
This non bluffing v bet 28 into 2 opponents, what 6x is in his range?
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote
02-06-2014 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wck117
This non bluffing v bet 28 into 2 opponents, what 6x is in his range?
76/A6ss/86ss and he still may be betting 66.

what line do you suggest?
1/3: 160BBs deep, turn nut straight, river pairs board Quote

      
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