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Old 06-18-2021, 10:47 AM   #1
sdfsgf
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1/3/10: PAHWM

$1/3 with a $10 button straddle. We have ~$900.

Preflop:
BU straddle $10
BB completes
Folds to us in the HJ with KJhh.

BB has ~$500 and has been doing a lot of limping, with maybe 50% limp/calls and 50% limp/folds. BU appears to be a decent regular (knows the dealers, etc) but I haven't played with him before. He recently bought in for the max ($500). Action?

[edit: clarified action]

Last edited by sdfsgf; 06-18-2021 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:54 AM   #2
Javanewt
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

I assume it folded to you. Can you tell us about the CO? If he's folding for sure, I'd go ahead and raise (~$50 - $60) -- if BU hasn't been 3 betting his straddle often and BB hasn't been limp/raising, which it doesn't seem he has.

Also, how do they see you?
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:57 AM   #3
sixsevenoff
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Raise to $60, this is way too strong to fold
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:14 AM   #4
gobbledygeek
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

The main question I always ask myself here is how legit chance there is of taking things down preflop with a raise (or at the worst getting it HU in position with the limper). If there is a legit decent chance, then by all means I'm raising (with only 2 to react behind me due to the Button straddle, unlike the 4 in the non-straddled case, I will adjust my wait-to-the-CO-until-raising rule). But the more chance I'm going to just build a huge bloated pot that goes 3+ ways with a lol SPR with me being OOP to a decent player on the Button, the more I'm fine with just overlimping here (especially with this type of hand where I have no problem encouraging a multiway high SPR pot). But I'm much cooler than others here with taking a passive preflop line, especially if there is a decent chance that I don't end up in position (which I value tremendously in big pots).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:18 AM   #5
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Annoying situation for a couple of reasons. You don't know what sort of player or what raise size is good against button yet. The button straddle effectively pushes things towards being short stacked. Hand is too good to fold given the situation. Button straddle temps button to raise if hero limps, reducing the chance limping will work.

I like a raise to $50. Fold to a reraise.
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:28 AM   #6
JayKon
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

I would like a little more about the CO and how Hero is viewed as well. QuadJ is asking important questions too. In a vacuum, I agree with the $50 raise. Not sure about folding to a 3-bet, depends on who made it, who called, the size, etc.
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:38 AM   #7
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

As for how I'm viewed: BU has ~nothing since he just sat down, other than that I'm also a young white guy. I think he saw me check/jam turn against a short stack with AA on a K-high board. Very little history though.

I had played with BB (MAWG) for a few hours. I probably had the lowest VPIP and highest 3bet frequency which I'm sure he noticed. One relevant hand involving BB: he opens $15 from EP/MP, next to act called, I 3b AQo $75 in position, he folded, other guy called. I cbet 1/3 pot on a super dry K-high flop, check/check turn and river, and my ace high was good. This is relevant just because BB was visibly annoyed and shaking his head/talking to the guy next to him when I showed down.
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:47 AM   #8
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Anything on the CO?
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:51 AM   #9
sdfsgf
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

CO was a friendly, tight-but-pretty-solid MAWG who I've played with for several hours that day and several times before. Probably called preflop raises more than optimal, but much less than the rest of the table.
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:52 AM   #10
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Sounds like there may be a decent chance that BB is limping to reraise our ass? If pretty decent, then easily combatted by taking the passive overlimp line.

ETA: Also sounds like we have 2 decent guys sitting to our immediate left? If so, I'd probably have the seat change button.

Gcluelesslimp/reraisingnoobG
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Old 06-18-2021, 12:14 PM   #11
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

GG may be right, but I'm still in the raise to $50 camp.

Edit: Disclaimer: I hate the button straddle, but since it's getting common, I better learn more bout it.

Last edited by JayKon; 06-18-2021 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:05 PM   #12
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

It doesn't sound as if BB limp/raises. If I get the vibe CO is folding (and definitely not raising), I'm sticking to my plan of raising here to $50 - $60.
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:32 PM   #13
sdfsgf
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Sounds like there may be a decent chance that BB is limping to reraise our ass? If pretty decent, then easily combatted by taking the passive overlimp line.
Worth considering, but FWIW we'd probably seen him limp 20-30 times in ~3 hours, of which 0 were limp/reraises.
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:40 PM   #14
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Effective stacks are 50bb. If we raise we will create an SPR of about 3-4 depending on raise size and whether we get 1 or 2 callers. This is fine but probably means we are getting close to committing our stack with a top pair or strong draw flop.

I don’t really fear that the BB is limping with the intention to reraise given the OP mentions he has only limp called or limp folded. The button has any two cards so we should not have to raise huge to fold him out and gain ultimate position on the big blind limper but people that straddle like to call raises.

We also have a hand that should play well multi way in a limped pot with a higher SPR.

So overall I am somewhat indifferent between over limping or raising here. If cut off is tight I would actually prefer raising KJ offsuit because it is has less playability post flop and is a much easier fold to a 3-bet.
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:08 PM   #15
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

I think this is a clear raise for value. Range wise, we have the best hand right now.

Last edited by WereBeer; 06-18-2021 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:13 PM   #16
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Continued

$1/3 with a $10 button straddle. We have ~$900.

Preflop:
BU straddle $10
BB completes
Folds to us in the HJ with KJhh.

We raise to $40, BU calls, BB folds.

Flop ($90): Th9c8d (~$450 effective)
(had initially typo'd suits, this is correct)
Action?

---
Looks like the consensus is that preflop should have been a little bigger. But I agree that a preflop raise is in order here.

Last edited by sdfsgf; 06-18-2021 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:21 PM   #17
gobbledygeek
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Well, I guess we should have decent equity against a lotta hands with our overs + OESD.

Though I'm also guessing this flop is probably supposed to hit our opponent more than us.

At a much smaller SPR, I think it would be a nice check/jam candidate. But at an SPR of 5, not so much (as we're kinda left in no mans land OOP if he calls and we whiff the turn). Although I guess we could just check/raise the flop to jam the turn whatever happens (as we'd only have 3/4 PSB left)?

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:35 PM   #18
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

We don’t have a nuts advantage or a significant range advantage on this flop. We should have a lot of checks here. We have decent equity against most hands but still don’t love getting raised. We are happy to see a lot of turns.

I check call at this depth.
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Old 06-18-2021, 05:29 PM   #19
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1/3/10: PAHWM

Bet $30 and plan on potting most turns if called
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Old 06-18-2021, 05:33 PM   #20
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdfsgf View Post
Continued

$1/3 with a $10 button straddle. We have ~$900.

Preflop:
BU straddle $10
BB completes
Folds to us in the HJ with KJhh.

We raise to $40, BU calls, BB folds.

Flop ($90): Th9c8d (~$450 effective)
(had initially typo'd suits, this is correct)
Action?

---
Looks like the consensus is that preflop should have been a little bigger. But I agree that a preflop raise is in order here.
Pre is way too small. I'm just checking this flop.
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Old 06-18-2021, 06:53 PM   #21
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

While I don't think that flop hit V's range all that hard, I do think it favors V more than Hero. So, I think it's time for a little pot control and to disguise Hero's hand. I like a check.
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Old 06-18-2021, 08:26 PM   #22
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

30 pre is fine even w the limp and the straddle behind. I see no reason to go bigger in a 1/3 game even w the btn str and the limp. You're only competing w the 3 live ranges at this point and there are so many outcomes that benefit you when you make it $30 instead of some larger amount that just starts shallowing things way too quickly.

Flop, lean bet against btn.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:58 PM   #23
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
30 pre is fine even w the limp and the straddle behind. I see no reason to go bigger in a 1/3 game even w the btn str and the limp. You're only competing w the 3 live ranges at this point and there are so many outcomes that benefit you when you make it $30 instead of some larger amount that just starts shallowing things way too quickly.

Flop, lean bet against btn.
This 1/3 has a $10 straddle and $500 effective stacks. That changes things.
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Old 06-19-2021, 04:26 PM   #24
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdfsgf View Post
Flop ($90): Th9c8d
Check and evaluate. With an obvious eye towards calling a single bet. This is mostly because hero doesn't want to bet and get raised. Plus if villain decides to bomb this pot hero can get out cheaply. Hero has a good draw but SPR is low and hero can't pay a lot to chase.

If this was a known villain I would mix between betting and checking. There are multiple reasons for this but the simplest is that villain should have a fair number of hands that just give up on such a scary board. Villain will have AX hands that are ahead right now that can't stick around when they can be drawing thin to dead already.
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Old 06-20-2021, 12:36 AM   #25
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Re: 1/3/10: PAHWM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKon View Post
This 1/3 has a $10 straddle and $500 effective stacks. That changes things.
Not enough to make it 50 or 60 thatís just silly. Everyone gonna go broke that way.
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