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Old 08-12-2013, 11:00 AM   #1
TBadr
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1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

Hi Everyone,
I haven't played in 2-3 months and went for a 1/2 session after busting out of the 365 event at foxwoods. Villain in both hands is in his 20s, sitting on a 1k stack very talkative. He was trying to assess me as soon as i sat down, asked me if i had just woke up to come play from which i infer that I at least appear to him as a reg. Right after I sat down he asked the table if anyone had adderall and said the only who seemed like he might have it would be me.

He seems to hand read well and is at a level of thinking where he plays based on his opponents range. I have seen him bluff a tight player on a dry board an raised the tight amateur's cbet with AA with 66 and immediately show him the bluff after AA folded face up.

I've also seen him do some goofy stuff like raise

Hand1
-------
PRE (effective stack is ~$350)
Villain opens to 12 from early position, random donk in between us flats and i make it $40 from LP with KK. Villain calls and donk folds.

FLOP ($90)
T9T
Villain checks. I normally cbet in position here vs randoms, but vs this guy I decided to check behind to as I felt it was a wa/wb spot and I can confidently bet a non A turn if he checks him since I am ranging him at mostly set mining hands like any PP, AK,AQ and rarely some suited broadway hands.

TURN ($90)
A
Villain checks. At the time i thought the decision here was close between checking and betting but maybe i am wrong. AK is a good part of my range as well as some high pairs. Since there are no flush draws and very few possible straight draw combos I still felt like it was wa/wb and that I could bet any river if he checked it and call his bets too.

River ($90)
5
Villain immediately and with not much thinking cuts out a $100 stack and pushes it across the betting line saying "alright, go away!" and with hoodie and sunglasses on looks straight at me the whole time while i am thinking.

I feel rusty and uncertain about my play here. My normal play here is usually is to bet until I am told I am no good with a raise, so I would bet flop and call checkraise and then fold to a turn bet or bet/f turn.

I will post the 2nd hand once I get some feedback on the first hand.
Thanks
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:15 AM   #2
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

I'm raising to $50 preflop, and against the described villan, betting the flop with the intention of getting it in if he feels frisky.

As played, I shrug fold the river.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:16 AM   #3
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If you call the river I think you played it fine.

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:39 AM   #4
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

Given the way the hand was played, I think you have to call river but it is probably a toss up if you win or lose. A lot would depend on exactly how I read villain's show of force here. If he is actually good then this over display here is more likely an AX or better hand that realizes you have a pocket pair and is trying to bait you into bluff catching. If he isn't so good then this is more likely an actual bluff.

Preflop is OK, with $40 being the minimum I would raise to here but I wouldn't go much more. I'm c-betting this flop 90%+ time but I would check sometimes. Having checked the flop, I'm betting the ace turn every time. Checking there is just inviting a river bet in a situation where your probably somewhere between slightly ahead or slightly behind a bluffer's range.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:40 AM   #5
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBadr View Post

I've also seen him do some goofy stuff like raise
oops, forgot to finish this part in the OP. I meant to say I have seen him raise to like $30 after 2 limps with AA and show it face up once they fold. I have seen him do this a couple of times.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:57 AM   #6
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

I'd would probably raise bigger pre, $50-$60, AP I'd bet the flop $70. Again, AP I'd bet the turn $70 and finally AP, I call the $100 on the river since you essentially asked him to bluff at it and got what you wanted.

Sure this hits his $40 calling range pretty hard but the only way I'd fold here is if I were totally giving up at this table and had been called for a move.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:20 PM   #7
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

it's not just the range smack

it's also his over psb

and the reverse tells

i bet you called and he had AJ, or even AT.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:21 PM   #8
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

After checking behind on the flop and turn doing anything other than calling on the river would be ******ed.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:40 PM   #9
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

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Originally Posted by DrChesspain View Post
After checking behind on the flop and turn doing anything other than calling on the river would be ******ed.
Well I agree that I have just opened the door for him to take the pot and If I am checking behind to induce bluffs I should certainly call. Thinking more about it, how likely is he to c/r bluff turn given preflop action and check behind on the flop? is a delayed cbet a better option in this case?
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it's not just the range smack

it's also his over psb

and the reverse tells

i bet you called and he had AJ, or even AT.
Can you expand on the reverse tells? what would you be looking for in this spot?
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:45 PM   #10
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

you called and villain shows Tx, right?

I think he has a hand here a lot, he checked turn hoping you had Ax and would bet it for him
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:46 PM   #11
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

Very good description of the scene before describing the hand. Thanks! (didnít read any other posts before this)

PF: This guys sounds like a competent villain who thinks abouts his opponents hands. First, what does he have? Heís got a hand that he raised from UTG+1 or MP1 (I assume it wasnít UTG because you would of said that) and then cold called a 3B. Letís make up a range: AA is possible, although itís more likely that he would 4B since heís OOP. QQ-22, AKo, AKs-AQsÖwell I really think thatís about it. Since he wasnít closing the action since this was squeeze I think that further supports the tight range I outlined. I believe that he thinks that you have a strong hand: AA-TT, AKo-AQo, AKs-AJs, KQs. He probably believes that you would just call with hands like 99-22 in this spot.

F: SPR is 3.4. Villian checks and expects you to Cbet. You know there are not a lot of T in this villains range. Heís not calling with AT to a 3B OOP. 99 of course is possible. Unless he has AA, which is possible but unlikely, you have him crushed. I would want to bet this flop to extract value from QQ and JJ. Because the SPR is 3.4, Iím pretty comfortable getting it all in (if an Ace doesnít come) with this opponent. If he does CR you, then I jam.

T: As played, you check and the Ace comes. Well that sucks. He checks, so he doesnít have a T for sure, nor does he have 99. He may view your check as an AK or AQ hand since you did not cbet, but this Ace hits a lot of his range and he knows that it hits your range as well. If you donít bet this Ace, he will likely think you donít have an Ace. If he doesnít have an Ace, betting only folds out hands that you beat. This is where itís a way ahead, way behind situation. I just donít see any value in betting this Ace. Letís hope he checks the river and we can value bet to get calls from QQ or JJ.

R: So the V basically bets pot. The verbal behind the bet along with the staring has me thinking what Caro tells us: ďStrong means weakĒ. Would he try to throw a reverse tell at you? Of course this bet is quite polarized. So what hands do we beat that he likely has: QQ and JJ. What are we losing to: AA, AK, AQ, and of course any Ace, but these are the likely ones. We canít shove because AA and AK are snapping us off, and QQ and JJ are folding. There are many more combos of AK and AQ in his range, so we need to consider that. I could see him checking his AA, AK, or AQ on the turn hoping now you would fire since he knows, that you know, that AK is in your range. Now heís trying to maximize his winnings with this polarizing bet. I think he would want to try to get QQ or JJ to showdown by checking or throwing out a blocking bet. I think I fold here, but itís close.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:29 PM   #12
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

Thanks for all the replies so far. The rumor and pgcounty seem to have it pretty figured out so I will divulge more

I was confident he thought I could lay a medium strength hand down. I mean, he turned 66 into a bluff vs a fish and made him lay down AA and showed. He is aware of his image and as I mentioned in my OP he was trying to probe me and size me up as soon as i sat down.
When he PSB the river he was obv polarized. We both realized that my range was capped to a single pair since i checked behind two streets in position in a 3bet pot. Now that I think about it, I would imagine he would c/c river with AK/AQ/AJ because AK (and maybe AQ) is also part of my range. If he thinks my range is mostly QQ+ and AK then would he bet the river like that with AJ/AQ? I don't thinke he ever assumes i have a T. So essentially his range is bluffs and boats. Maybe also trips if he has stuff like JT/QT/KT in his raise/call pre oop range which i would assume not.

It was a toss up in my head at the time so i started looking for physical tells. He stared right at me the whole time without any movement. So we know that strong means weak but he could also be reversing but since he was part of the younger crowd then i was less inclined to think he would put much weight on physical tells. Anyways, I finally call and he shows me ATo for a boat. He asks "any chance you'd like to share what you had"? i politely decline to disclose any info.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:39 PM   #13
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

lol wtf thats a wacky hand
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:39 PM   #14
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

Now that we have some info through hand 1, here is hand 2:

PRE (eff stack is ~$190)
villain (same as from hand 1) opens to $12 from utg, utg+2 calls, I call in MP with JJ and CO and btn call as well.

FLOP ($60)
434
Villain bets $40, utg+2 folds, I call and the 2 remaining players fod and we are now heads up.

TURN ($140)
T
Villain immediately asks how many players are left, asks me how much do i have left, just as i reach for my chips to cut them for a count he says "I put you all in"
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:43 PM   #15
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

What do you range him from EP? We need some info about his raising range to really comment on hand 2.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:46 PM   #16
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBadr View Post
Now that we have some info through hand 1, here is hand 2:

PRE (eff stack is ~$190)
villain (same as from hand 1) opens to $12 from utg, utg+2 calls, I call in MP with JJ and CO and btn call as well.

FLOP ($60)
434
Villain bets $40, utg+2 folds, I call and the 2 remaining players fod and we are now heads up.

TURN ($140)
T
Villain immediately asks how many players are left, asks me how much do i have left, just as i reach for my chips to cut them for a count he says "I put you all in"
Call fairly quickly against this guy by the sounds of it.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:46 PM   #17
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

TBadr: Lets be clear: villain is horrible pre and you should be 3 betting him with impunity if he'll call a 3 bet to $40 with AT.

Given this read on him, I think JJ may be a 3 bet in Hand 2.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:08 PM   #18
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

The Rumor, So far I have seen him ISO limps by ridiculously oversizing pre and I have seen him open/call my 3b with AT. So at this point it is unclear to me if he is unbalanced with cold opening size. In other words I don't know if his $12 open contains his enitre range, top, mid or top+mid, hence my call.

I agree now that given his open/call to my 3b with AT that his preflop requirement are rather loose, but I just know that he is sticky and doesn't like to r/f pre. I just thought at the time that flatting was bettr to keep all the weak part of his range in, plus I had position. Not saying that's the best option, just what I thought at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor View Post
What do you range him from EP? We need some info about his raising range to really comment on hand 2.
So to answer the above directly, at the time i put him on 66+, AT+,KT+

Last edited by TBadr; 08-12-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:22 PM   #19
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

If you think he'd shove with Tx the turn is a trivial call.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:27 PM   #20
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

You think so? what do you think he puts me on when i flat his flop cbet?
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:37 PM   #21
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

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Originally Posted by TBadr View Post
You think so? what do you think he puts me on when i flat his flop cbet?
If he's shoving turn with a ten for value he can easily put you on 55-99 and hope his jam looks bluffy enough to get called off by those hands.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:42 PM   #22
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

I'd like to know more about the other players in the pot, so I knew better why Villain lead hard into four opponents on a mildly coordinated flop. Sometimes that's a reckless play, but sometimes it's a killer. And, you admitted he's good at reading people...so I'd assume he's got a good read on you and everybody else in the hand.

Couldn't fault you for calling the turn, b/c you may very well have him beat.

But it seems to me like he's goading you into a call. Fold and wait for a better opportunity. No shame in giving up top pair to a good player. He's playing (and bloating) enough pots that a better opportunity should come along rather soon.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:44 PM   #23
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

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Originally Posted by Redsoxnets5 View Post
If he's shoving turn with a ten for value he can easily put you on 55-99 and hope his jam looks bluffy enough to get called off by those hands.
I can see him thinking that, but my range also contains TT/JJ right? granted there are more combos of 55-99 than TT/JJ but I have also called his PSB in the previous hand and therefore the capability of calling an overbet that looks bluffy as you put it.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:49 PM   #24
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

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Originally Posted by slimjimindc View Post
I'd like to know more about the other players in the pot, so I knew better why Villain lead hard into four opponents on a mildly coordinated flop. Sometimes that's a reckless play, but sometimes it's a killer. And, you admitted he's good at reading people...so I'd assume he's got a good read on you and everybody else in the hand.

Couldn't fault you for calling the turn, b/c you may very well have him beat.

But it seems to me like he's goading you into a call. Fold and wait for a better opportunity. No shame in giving up top pair to a good player. He's playing (and bloating) enough pots that a better opportunity should come along rather soon.
So the flop is actually very dry and when he bets 2/3 pot into 4 people i would think that he's got to be repping TT+ or maybe AK with which he will slow down on the turn if given action. So when he shoves turn I am thinking he has TT+, thinks i have like 88/99 and wants to stack me.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:03 AM   #25
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Re: 1/2NL - two hands vs tricky player

Trivial call.

Also bad play pre-flop, you should be 3b him with a wider range.
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