I'm not villain. Why are you so worried about villain? The point is you can't raise fold here. Villains raising range is what you should be worried about. His 3bet range is not A8,K8,78. He has 66,86 or 98 like a 100% of the time.

To answer your question no I would just call your raise ott.

And then do what on the river with 140 left and half the deck as scare cards for 8x? Just asking...

Its not like you are missing value by not raising. He won't fold a fd completing river. Stop playing for stacks with non nutted hands ott.

Calling pre is fine with 5:1. Raise turn. Too many scare cards can bink the river and cause you to level yourself.

Results:

You guys are bad.

Grunch:

Pre, well you know the drill.

Flop: I really hate a super defined flop raising game, I like flatting everything here, including so much of my strong hands.

Turn, I actually like a call here because I can rep more broken draws on rivers and get value that way. Raising is not bad, however, mostly because villain basically always has 8x that presumably at least peels you once here. Never never folding to raise bro, me got straight, me no foldy.

I have not read results yet, but this is almost exactly what I would've done if I made it to the turn, and I would call the all in.

"Hero tanks for 45 seconds and then raises, villain tanks for 1-2 minutes and raises"

Lmao, seriously?

Fo serious. Took him a while to make that raise

That long tank makes the turn a snap call for us imo. People don't take that long with the effective nuts (a boat) very often.

Also, I'm still struggling to see how the turn raise is bad. Even "reasonably good" players will have a hard time folding trips here (and if they do fold that's also cool since we're getting someone out of the hand with some decent equity in the pot [10 outs]).

Also, villain could still have a spade draw here, and unlikely but still possible, a club draw. Raising to get that hand to call or fold is also obv good for us.

And once we raise the turn, I think we're committed to calling. Probably the most overplayed hand I see in nl is trips, and we'll be getting good enough odds to make that crying call imo.

Edit: Hero also has a lag image going that may be in play here. Another reason to raise the turn.

Grunch:
Raise to $150. Fold to his all-in OTT.
Check, check River.

Your line post flop was perfect. Would have played it the exact same way.

We do want to play for stacks here. Getting value from 8x and flush draws...

Fold pre as you mentioned. Flop call should be fine given position. I like the turn raise as no one's folding an 8 here and there's not very many clean rivers that villain's going to b/c or c/c often enough to make up for missed turn value imo. Calling the turn tank 3bet isn't likely something we can help with. He's either legit tanking with Q8-A8/57ss, or fake tanking with a boat. It's usually pretty obvious.

NH