10-Handed / 1-2NL

When I first played this hand, I thought I played it fine. After looking it over, I feel I made some mistakes and was curious how 2+2 would play this hand.

V1 (UTG) ($169) - 40s male, mostly here to have fun/gamble. When he bets it represents strength. Will call light or if he is chasing. Have seen call gut shots for 3/4 pot sized bets. Has bet pot sized and sometimes over bet pot, mostly has 2p+ (with 1 time being TPTK) in his range.

V2 (MP+1) ($320) - 30s male, doesn't get involved to often. Came from a Limit game with around $500 in $2 chips. Made a play where he straddles, I raise to $26, player to my right(Not in HH) calls after tanking, and he raises to $75. (He had 33) There were 3 callers before my raise and he said he thought I was making a play. Other than that villain has been limping 50% of hands pre-flop and usually gives up on the flop/turn.

V3 (BU) ($235) - 30s male, likes to call with draws. Would call any bet if he was drawing or had TP. Will bet if he hits the board. Mostly would bet 3/4 - pot sized bets when he had a hand. Usually gives his hand away based on his bets and calls.

Hero (UTG+1) ($275) - 20s male, had been playing very tight for the first hour. Started to catch cards and showed a bluff one time by raising 67s and c-betting a 335r flop. Overall, I have been playing tight, but the table seems to never believe me or thinks I am making a move then having a hand.

Table has been very loose passive. There were not many raises pre-flop. During the first 2 or so hours the table had been active, but after 3 people (2 that were creating the action) left, the table was seeing the flop 4-6 players 80-90% of the time (due to limping). V1 has been at the table since I sat down, but V2 and V3 have only been at the table for around 2-3 orbits. (The table was limp happy before they joined)


Hero looks at QJ

V1 Limps
Hero Raises to $12
1 Fold
V2 Calls
2 Folds
V3 Calls
Blinds Fold
V1 Calls

I feel pre-flop might be standard. My standard raise was usually 10-12 + L. I would usually win the blinds or get up to 2 callers with my standard raise. Would appreciate input if there is a better play pre-flop.

Flop ($45 after rake): 6 9 J (4 Players)

V1 Checks
Hero Bets $20
Everyone Calls

I feel my bet sizing was a little small and probably should of made it $30-$40. This is a great flop for me and I should be trying to get as much money in there with the amount of equity I have.

Turn ($125 after rake): K

V1 Checks
Hero Bets $60?

When everyone calls I know they all have some piece of this flop. I feel someone would raise if they had a set or even 2p so I can discount that from their range. There might be a good chance that someone has a club draw as well and I might be able to get some fold equity and increase my equity. Also, if someone raises it pretty much gives their hand away (turned straight or 2p) and I still will have equity to call. (Unless someone has a flush draw with the K, but even that's only a small part of their range) Is my thinking off here?

I'd probably bet more on the flop, but the turn is one of the worst cards you can see, as you're now losing to K-Q, Q-T, and a (less likely) stubborn A-K, which are all plausible holdings for your opponents. K-J will play with greater confidence against you, and your action is mostly killed against worse jacks. The only reason to bet would be if (i) your hand is actually still good and (ii) weak draws are going to call. I think that's a bit optimistic and so would be trying to get to the river.

I don't quite understand your thinking behind still being able to continue when you get raised. First, that's not necessarily true, and second, that's a worse outcome than checking and only having to call a single bet. Also, you don't really care about fold equity here because hands that are folding have very little equity.

So, if we check the turn and there is a bet and a call when it gets back to us, are we still calling? I just felt lost because I'm just wondering if it is even worth c/c the turn. Do we even have any outs available when we are not HU going to the river? It feels sick but does anybody c/f here if there is a bet and a call or 2 callers?

If we get raised I feel like the range is going to be mostly a straight or two pair, maybe even TPTK.

With $125 + $60 (hero bet) + $60 (villain call) + ($77(V1) to $183(V3) more to call) = $317 to $423.
So $77 to win $317 would be a little over 4:1 (20%)
And $183 to win $423 would be 2.3:1 (30%)
If we have a range of (KJ,AK,QT,K9) we have about 28% equity.

So if V1 goes all in we are +EV and if V2 goes all in we are slightly -EV.
I think my math is right, but overall it would be correct to call an AI raise then, right?

No offense but this is horrible all around.

Limp pre. Even if we are a dominant player, we are only 135 bb's deep so if we do flop gin against another gin hand, we're not getting huge profit to be raising with a marginal hand oop.

Pot bet flop. Too many V's in this hand and we want to charge draws. Shove any raise.

Pot turn/Shove turn. Either way, try to get your money in asap oop.

The key to llsnl is to bet big/3b big and let the in-experienced pay you off. 90+% of V's came to gamble. Don't EVER be afraid to bet/raise big with a hand like this. The TPGK, FD, and aggressiveness to create fe puts us in the +ev here.

Fold pre. How often is JT, QT calling you're UTG1 raise? More likely AJ, AQ, KQ, KJ will call and you're oop with a weaker kicker.

AP, otf, I wouldn't bet so much more, keep their ranges wider than just nfd's, 25ish.

Probably hope the turn gets checked through. Betting is just turning this into a bluff multi-way which is pretty terrible.

QJs is a great example of a hand that plays great in position and poorly out of position. I would fold this hand from this position preflop, unless the table was tight and you felt like you could get heads up. That didn't happen here, though.

I'm potting this flop. Give the NFD bad odds to come along

If table is very loose I'm either folding or limping with this preflop. A reasonable bet isn't going to limit the field much and you don't want to build a bloated pot OOP with QJs.

I would bet the flop here, top pair and a good flush draw is a big hand even against multiple villains. Particularly against fish who are likely to call down with better JX even if the flush hits. However, when flop bet gets 3 callers hero has to know he isn't ahead. The turn is a very bad card for your hand, as somebody likely now has two pair+ and is never folding. I would check turn and look to call a small bet to fish for the flush. If a turn bet gets more then one call I would be very careful on river if the flush comes in, because it would be easy for somebody to be chasing the nut flush here.

Preflop is not standard. The people who are saying "fold" are probably right, as are most comments about folding anything but premiums in early position. I personally don't think limping is horrible, and an occasional raise can be used where the other players are paying attention and/or you need to sell the illusion of action. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

This is a great flop, but I'm not a huge fan of betting an amount that encourages too many calls. Bet closer to pot.

Check the turn. Yes, you can check/call with a huge draw.

Thank you all for the feedback so far.

I admit, pre-flop probably is a fold/limp but with not playing any hands for about 2 orbits, I felt like I wouldn't get more than 1-2. Also, since I was card dead I guess I wanted to play a hand even though I would most likely be OOP. (Realize I have to tighten up OOP)

I agree mtagliaf makes a point on playing QJs OOP, but is there ever a correct time to raise this hand UTG+1 or +2? Would you l/c with this hand or is it better just to fold pre?

Lastly, maybe I'm missing something, but what is the best outcome we can hope for with c/c the turn. A Villain bets $40 and were the only caller? Since these Villains like to bet more than 1/2 pot when they have a hand; why not just let us keep the betting and price ourselves in. If the turn checks through I feel like that's even more a reason to give up then to check turn/call river.

Also, Man of Means, why do you think our draw is huge if there is a chance that we could be drawing dead on the turn?

Sorry if I'm not making sense(I almost feel more lost now then before the thread), but what's the best play to win the hand? or do we just give up?

I try to NEVER open limp. I allow myself to limp behind other limpers, in later positions, or sometimes from the SB (but I'm super tight in the SB). If I'm first to act, it's fold or raise for me, depending on my image and table conditions.

My opinion is that if you're limping and then calling a raise from someone who has position on you, then you should get a nauseous feeling like you just kicked a puppy or something. You've done bad and you should feel bad about it.

raise if you feel you can outplay th eother players by barreling and reperesenting scae cards on later streets

qjs is the nuts imo, i always raise with it

Pre is ok as long as you feel comfortable with your postflop game.

Bet bigger on the flop, like $30 or $35.

I think a check on turn is best as it would suck to get blown off our hand with a big raise or be forced to call when marginally getting odds. Odds are decent that someone has QT or KJ and will put in a raise if we bet.