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Old 12-02-2014, 11:54 PM   #1
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9
1/2NL Is this Line just Bad or Aggro Miss?

Playing 1/2NL 300Max Buy-In

New table just started first Orbit.

Starting Stack Hero 265

Hero gets Q10hh First to Act and Limps.
2 Callers behind then Button makes it 10.
Hero raises to 40.
Cutoff Calls and Button Calls.

-Flop- 3Way to the Flop
KJ3rainbow(no hearts)

Hero leads out for 85.
Cutoff tank goes all in for 100.
Button folds.

Hero calls obviously?

My thinking...
-Not crazy about board but due to passivity pre flop from initial raiser and cutoff I can bet with open ended draw?

-Took a look at Cutoffs stack on turn before betting 85 and noticed that he was low... Didn't want to ask exactly how much because i thought that might have been a "tell" guessed his stack amount(my vision really isn't that great lol)
Another side note looked at Buttons stack and noticed he had about the same stack as mine... kinda thought that he was trying to build pot for suited cards and missed also kind of didn't care due to straight draw thought i could put him off hand.

-Havent played in a while so was just playing for fun (it was during thanksgiving break) if the flop comes with at least 1 heart on the board can we argue for backdoor flush draws making this hand any better?

-Would a hand like this be bluffable on the turn for a double barrel if we were deeper? And would you still chase straight on missed turn if it came?
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Old 12-03-2014, 01:03 AM   #2
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Re: 1/2NL Is this Line just Bad or Aggro Miss?

what are you doing pre flop and why
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Old 12-03-2014, 01:09 AM   #3
Brian O'Nolan
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Re: 1/2NL Is this Line just Bad or Aggro Miss?

Preflop is just awful button clicking. You're not getting credit for a big hand starting a table so the limp-reraise is getting called about always, and it will often be by better broadway hands that have you dominated. So you're setting yourself up to play a pot with a small SPR OOP and when you flop a pair you're often no good. Bad, bad, bad. Folding QTs UTG is probably best with no reads on the table; limping or open-raising wouldn't usually be preferable, but would certainly be better than what you did.

The button isn't acting passively preflop; he's just choosing not to stack off. That makes AA/KK unlikely, but all kinds of broadway hands are squarely in his range. We might weight his preflop range a little bit on the weaker side with his initial raise sizing but we have no reads to back that up with.

Once you get to the flop with the OESD I guess you hafta cbet and go with it. You should have some FE (less than you think, probably) and once you get raised you're easily getting the right price to call (doesn't matter if it's 15 more or 100 more, although you should clarify that in the OP).

I don't understand what you are thinking in this hand at all. Is there some goal of building a crazy image? Is it just for fun?
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Old 12-03-2014, 02:34 AM   #4
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: 1/2NL Is this Line just Bad or Aggro Miss?

Well, if you're playing just for fun, I think you played the hand fine. I'd get a kick out of limp-reraising QT and then stacking off on a straight draw. It's not really good profitable poker though.

At a new table, QTs UTG is a fold. Limp/calling or raise/folding would both be better options than limp/re-raising.

As played, might as well call and hope for the best.

Also, don't be afraid to ask for a chip count. It's important information that you should have.
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Old 12-04-2014, 01:36 AM   #5
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Re: 1/2NL Is this Line just Bad or Aggro Miss?

Thanks for the responses. I agree with the feedback on post flop play, I think it is kind of a must call...

To be honest one reason I got involved in this hand is because I am trying to find out if there is any way to play Suited Connectors or Gapers from an early position... Maybe this is too much thinking and overanalyzing but my thinking was that if I limp with a hand like Q10hh from early position I can maybe conceal it and try to make it seem as if it is an AK rangey or mid pocket pair type hand... any thoughts welcome.

My big point here is do you think that there is anyway to really play early position connectors with aggression or should we really just try to limp/call with them only.

"At a new table, QTs UTG is a fold. Limp/calling or raise/folding... " - jesse123

Results -
Cutoff ended up having AJoff and button folded...
Button claimed to have AQ

Bricked the turn for a 7
River came 10
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Old 12-04-2014, 07:36 AM   #6
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Re: 1/2NL Is this Line just Bad or Aggro Miss?

You need to play tight from EP, period. Just fold. You can't play wide from EP because you're always first to act and have less information than your opponent.
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Old 12-04-2014, 08:49 AM   #7
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Re: 1/2NL Is this Line just Bad or Aggro Miss?

I think your thought process of BTN is off from reality.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:15 AM   #8
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Re: 1/2NL Is this Line just Bad or Aggro Miss?

In EP, you should be folding suited connectors more then anything. Even when deep you can't play all of them without making your OOP range too weak and when the table is short it may not be profitable to play any. When you do play them, open raising is generally best but limp/call can be used also. The raise disguises your hand a bit and gets better FE preflop and on flop. The big raise sizes at 1/2 can reduce your implied odds, forcing you to cut the number you play even further. If your doing any limp/calls with other hands then you should mix a few limp/calls with suited connectors in also and at very passive tables limping can let you see more flops cheaply.

Limp/raise generally makes SPR too small to have good implied odds or any maneuvering room. Very rarely you can limp/raise bluff, it requires a very specific situation and even when the chance comes up you don't want to risk it very often. You need to have a clean/tight image, deep stacks and a villain in LP who will squeeze most limped pots but will fold to a 3 bet without a premium hand. You need to have a good image because you want to minimize the chance of somebody else jumping in and messing up your play, though it will still happen a lot. And this is only workable with deep stacks so you have a backup plan (hit flop and/or c-bet) when called.
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Old 12-07-2014, 09:37 PM   #9
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Re: 1/2NL Is this Line just Bad or Aggro Miss?

Your pre flop is very amusing my friend, thanks

You are taking the right steps to get better

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