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Old 05-30-2014, 07:20 AM   #1
Koss
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1/2NL, I river top 2, how good is it?

1/2NL, playing 7 handed at the moment.

V ($150) is about 30, white guy, rocking the shades and ear buds. Definitely trying to look the part of a grinder. He's fishy preflop, doing way too much limp/calling to be a good player. Postflop he seems to have some clue what he's doing, but I've only been at the table a couple of orbits so these reads are very preliminary.

Hero (covers) also 30s white guy. Haven't played any notable pots yet.

V open limps in HJ, hero raises to $11 in CO with AQo. Folds to V who calls.

Flop($20)A58r
V checks, hero bets $15, V calls.

Turn($50)6A58r
V checks, hero checks. Figured he had to call with something on that flop, not sure if I can get 3 streets vs. weaker aces. Feels like my best bet is to check back and then call a river bet or bet it myself if checked to.

River($50) Q6A58r
V bets $40, hero?

His range is obviously everything that beats me, plus a ton of stuff that doesn't. Does a raise here, which given his stack size is basically a shove, fold everything worse, or is there value?
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Old 05-30-2014, 08:25 AM   #2
jimicornerstone
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Raise more pre. You definitely can get more value from weaker aces by betting the turn, this where a lot of the value comes from in these games, so no reason to check there, keep firing. As played, you can GII with top 2 on the river, your turn check makes you look a lot weaker than you are.
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Old 05-30-2014, 08:30 AM   #3
tw1n_k0i
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Re: 1/2NL, I river top 2, how good is it?

Definitely bet the turn as mentioned above. Shove the river. Any two pair is calling, and he just doesn't have sets that often.
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Old 05-30-2014, 08:32 AM   #4
jimicornerstone
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Also, your hand history is weird. Put the turn and river cards after the flop, you know, like it is IRL.
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:30 AM   #5
Duke0424
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Shove the river. You can absolutely get called by a lot of worse hands like A6, A8, A5, 86s, 85s... And stuff like AJ, AT is also in his range

I don't think checking back the turn is awful unless you think he limps big aces like AJ, AT, A9. If he's only limping smaller aces then its going to be difficult to get three streets, but you'll be able to get value from 76 still OTT so I think I'd just keep betting
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Old 05-31-2014, 12:56 PM   #6
Koss
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Are you more likely to check the turn if we pair the Q instead of the A? I guess I felt the turn check was standard against a likely thinking player but I guess I see the value if there are a lot of weaker aces in his range.

Anyways I called. I think my biggest leak sometimes is I stick to my plans (call/bet river) instead of altering them when I should. He shows 56, I dodge the turn c/r but miss river value.
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Old 05-31-2014, 01:07 PM   #7
metdude3128
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Re: 1/2NL, I river top 2, how good is it?

Like this post because it includes some of the leaks I see in my own game, such as checking back the turn when I should be firing and missing river value. I had a recent hand where I took a similar line to you, and also missed river value.

We should fire the turn since there was no reason to slow down, and the river should be shoved because like a prior poster said, there are so many lower 2 pair hands and TP hands that are within his range, far more then hands that beat us.
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Old 05-31-2014, 01:17 PM   #8
de4df1sh
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Re: 1/2NL, I river top 2, how good is it?

Im usually taking a bet/bet/bet in this spot and trying to get all the money in with a weaker ace.

On the turn I think its a bet, alot of worse A and 67 now has a pair.

On the river if we are going to raise I think it needs to be super small like a min-raise. I don't think can get called worse often enough to shove it.

I think call is fine too.
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Old 05-31-2014, 01:53 PM   #9
losingisfun
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Given stacks. I think just shove
Min raise and fold to minraise seems bad
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Old 05-31-2014, 01:54 PM   #10
codfordinner
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Re: 1/2NL, I river top 2, how good is it?

Just from trying to learn,
why do we not think It's possible he hit a straight on the turn?

We know he called our bet on the flop, (didn't lead like a lot of people would with an ace) so he could be chasing something..
and straights / flushes can definitely be slowplayed a lot in live games, so he checks the turn,
I guess I just don't see why we want to get it all in instead of calling the $40, just to play it safe?

Is it just that 7-9 is rarely played? Because if it is a lot of guys are limping in to begin with these kind of hands.

I guess also you need reads if this player is limping ace x hands preflop.
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Old 05-31-2014, 02:15 PM   #11
Koss
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Its not that he cant have a straight, or a set. Its his range. I crush his river betting range so if I call and lose its a cooler. The queation is does he call a raise with worse hands often enough?
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Old 05-31-2014, 10:30 PM   #12
owlberteinstein
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I think I'm just calling the river. Really no point in raising it now.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:03 AM   #13
daniel9861
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Re: 1/2NL, I river top 2, how good is it?

Bet/fold turn $25 imo.

I like a river shove because most 1/2 grinders aren't good at hero folding strong absolute strength hands. Would expect 88 and 66 to raise pre so his river range is like 97s, 55, A8, A6s, A5s, 86s, 65s
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:54 AM   #14
blackluster777
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Re: 1/2NL, I river top 2, how good is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss View Post
1/2NL, playing 7 handed at the moment.

V ($150) is about 30, white guy, rocking the shades and ear buds. Definitely trying to look the part of a grinder. He's fishy preflop, doing way too much limp/calling to be a good player. Postflop he seems to have some clue what he's doing, but I've only been at the table a couple of orbits so these reads are very preliminary.

Hero (covers) also 30s white guy. Haven't played any notable pots yet.

V open limps in HJ, hero raises to $11 in CO with AQo. Folds to V who calls.

Flop($20)A58r
V checks, hero bets $15, V calls.

Turn($50)6A58r
V checks, hero checks. Figured he had to call with something on that flop, not sure if I can get 3 streets vs. weaker aces. Feels like my best bet is to check back and then call a river bet or bet it myself if checked to.

River($50) Q6A58r
V bets $40, hero?

His range is obviously everything that beats me, plus a ton of stuff that doesn't. Does a raise here, which given his stack size is basically a shove, fold everything worse, or is there value?
bet like 32 on turn, fold to raise. sets up pot for potential stacks on riv. 6 completes alot of draws, so too big might isolate with better, but I think you def can get value here
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:20 PM   #15
eldiesel
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Re: 1/2NL, I river top 2, how good is it?

All that beats you is 47 and 79. If he has a clue post I don't think he's drawing to a gutshot that won't even be the nuts, so 47 is out. You lose to just 79 and you don't want to shove?
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:57 AM   #16
blankblankobv
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Re: 1/2NL, I river top 2, how good is it?

As played I think you absolutely have to shove the river. His short-ish stack makes this an easy decision as your losses if beaten are limited. I'd be very surprised if he folded two pair, and he might call with a bare A. Your line is weird, so it's unlikely he puts you on AQ. If anything it looks like you might have QQ if you shove, but it's gonna be super difficult for him to fold based on that one possibility.

As for the rest of the hand... Raise to 15 pre. I don't hate the check on the turn, but with his stack size I'm pretty comfortable getting it all in; so I think I would bet every street to try to get it all in by the river. If he is bluffy at all I wouldn't fold to a turn check-raise. Yes, he could have a set or hit a gutshot or two pair; but he could also very well have 67, A4, A7, A9 and decided to make a play with his added equity from the 6.

I could see checking back a 9 or 4 - those cards usually either beat you or don't help Villain, whereas the 6 is more likely to improve his hand without beating you.

If you're going to check a street I would check the flop. That will give you more info on Villain's hand (he's probably never going to check the turn with a hand that beats you if the flop checks through). The flop is dry, so it's a way ahead/way behind situation; so if effective stacks were deeper I can see checking the flop to pot control/induce action from weaker hands.
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Old 06-02-2014, 04:21 AM   #17
sheled007
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Re: 1/2NL, I river top 2, how good is it?

you lose to 79's and a set, if he got the set then I dont see him limping from HJ with 55\88, looks like A5\A8 that is going to call you and get you maximum value if you shove.. I'm thinking shove given the stacks situation.
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Old 06-02-2014, 05:38 AM   #18
MadamIamAdam
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Shove and print manies. Lot more of Ax and 2p combos vs sets/straights. V calling all 2p and also some Ax
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