1/2NL: Flop a SF draw OOP in 3bet pot, best line? - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Depends on the flop obviously...and I have more than 20% against his range, probably closer to 35-40% if he ever 3b with suited connector type hands.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.606% 31.31% 00.29% 37532181 351565.00 { Js9s }
Hand 1: 68.394% 68.10% 00.29% 81625969 351565.00 { TT+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+ }

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07-18-2013 , 05:58 PM

#27

Neutrogena

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 462

Your read of villain does not justify playing OOP with J9s at all.

What you did in this hand was pretty much "calling for information" kind of bad play.

You opened in a passive table (that's fine, no problem there), then you decided with very little read and zero plan to call the min 3-bet OOP.

Btw, playing fit-or-fold is not a plan...

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07-18-2013 , 06:04 PM

#28

NeverScurred

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

Would anyone fold here in V's spot with AA and holding the As, knowing that I could not have AKss/AJss/ATss? From V's point of view it seems the only hands he can beat that I would shove are KK, AQ, and TJss/J9ss, but donk/3b shoving AQ against his range would just be terrible and he seemed like the type of player that knows I'm not flatting AQ against his 3b, and then playing it that way post-flop either. KK would be an obvious 4bet, so yeah...I'd be curious to see what the responses would have been if I posted this from V's point of view. Stacks might not be deep enough to get a fold from AA very often, but logically there isn't much AA is beating that raises PF and then donk/3b shoves the flop in a 3b pot.

It'd be weird of villain to assume you can have combo draws but not regular draws or other (semi)bluffs. If you're calling with J9s here you're calling with all manner of suited connectors/suited aces/other speculative hands, and if you're only continuing with them postflop when you flop something as strong as strong as a combo draw, you're hemorrhaging money with your preflop calls.

Quote

07-18-2013 , 07:27 PM

#29

suited fours

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,143

I've lost a lot of money incorrectly assuming villains have a 3b range wider than KK+. I'm trying to train myself to look for stronger evidence than what you have here. So, I think I would fold pre to the min 3b.

Hate the showing of hands thing too. (I have same leak when tired.)

It seems like he may have correctly assumed that he kept your entire range to continue with the small 3b. It might be a bit of a crying call, but as villain I would consider the shove call obligatory. Can a thinking villain completely discount KcQc or AcQc here, for example?

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07-19-2013 , 08:20 AM

#30

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

If I was holding AA with the As I would be thinking "wtf is he donk/3b shoving with after raising pre?" I don't have any history with V so maybe he thinks I do this with AQ or KK, but holding the As gets rid of almost all flush draw combos so my range for the donk/3b shove should be like sets and KK only.

If he wants me to call with hands that have a good chance of cracking big pairs then sure, he did. A larger 3bet would have made it more likely that I'm only going to call him with pocket pairs and AK. His stack size might be a little small to be calling the 3b, but SPR is still 4.5. If he had a $200 stack or made the 3b any larger I would've folded. His range for a light 3b should still be more like TT+ and ATs+/AQo+/KQs, so it's not like he just always has QQ+ here with this sizing.

If I were the V, your $10 into $53 would not alert to me 88/44. Can't tell if there was any solid 3-bet history, however based on descript your overall image seemed spewy.

His sizing in this hand is more than proportionate from a dead $ perspective. He raised to $25 with $13 in the pot, 1.9x. His previous raise of $42 was into $25, 1.7x. The absolute amount is obviously smaller but clearly proportionate. I would not have read anything into the PF sizing.

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