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1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs 1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs

03-04-2014 , 12:09 AM
I'm a recreational player, if I play it is more for fun/distraction, so any help is appreciated.

First hand of the evening so no history or reads or table dynamics. Just sat down with 200 in MP and post the blind.
Couple of limpers, I check JTs, V2 and V3 limp, V1 raises OTB to 12. I call, as well as the other villains (I cover V2, V3 covers me).

Flop: 3-8-9s
(pot = 50ish)

I check to the raiser, as do the other 2 callers. V1 pushes all in for 50.
I decide to call with the 2 others behind me to act. V2 folds, V3 calls.

Turn: 7s
(pot = 200ish)

Great card obviously, but I'm not sure how to get maximum value from V3.
I push my remaining 140ish all in, V3 folds after some thought.

River: Q

V1 mucks A8 for flopped middle pair, V3 claims he had an overpair and had a feeling when the 7 hit on the turn..

Any street I should have played differently? Thanks for any advice, cheers.
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 12:42 AM
I prefer a lead on the flop and then there are a lot of turns you can continue betting such as a 7TJQKA or any spade.

Your turn bet is where you made the biggest mistake. Your sizing is so large into a dry pot that it screams that you have the nuts. Bet smallish to try to get value from 2 pair, top pair, and pair with straight draw type hands. Since you have flush card you aren't really worried about the flush coming (sure, you could get overflushed but in general that would be a cooler)
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 03:12 AM
Readless I'm probably folding pre.

Bet the turn smaller given stack sizes. Don't want to scare him off. $65 is fine.
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 12:23 PM
raise to 12-15 pre depending on table

as played its fine

exceot maybe donk flop for 3/4 pot
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 12:30 PM
On the turn you're throwing a large bet into a dry side pot, so from V3's perspective you essentially can't be bluffing. He just has to think about what proportion of your value bets he's ahead of (or if he has correct odds to hit a perceived out). If you make it smaller, he'll call a lot lighter. You have $138 ott. If you make it something like $50-60, he's unlikely to fold 9x+ or a ten, and you'll get the rest of his stack on the river sometimes anyway since he might not be able to resist the 4-5:1 odds he'll be getting to call your shove.
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 01:01 PM
Add on ... treat side pot as a new pot ... not 140 into 200 ... so bet 50 to 60 or check.

You have the nut straight (right now) and blockers to the higher flush draws so you can check here to try and induce a River bluff BUT BUT you risk not getting paid (or beat) by a spade on the River anyway ... so I like to bet out same amount I just put into the main 'to get my money back' in the side so to speak. Just something I do to see if my opponents are paying attention or not to the bet sizes.

Shoving when no one has a read on you is probably going to get folds a lot. Not sure why V3 didn't pop you on the Flop to isolate with his overpair but he might think he is already beat by shoving V for some reason or he just didnt have any reads on you. No matter ... bet smaller or check .. GL
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 01:20 PM
Thanks for the feedback, I thought it would look stronger to bet small (as I would be betting eg 50 into 200, leaving me with 90 to bet into 300), but as you mention to consider it as a new pot this does look better, thanks all.
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 01:22 PM
First thing is dont post in MP. Even though you are playing for fun, you will have more fun if you walk away richer. It's not just the $2, although it all adds up, its also that you will get involved in pots with bad starting hands, which can lead to more expensive mistakes.

If you were an amateur golfer, you would want to be disciplined with your stance and swing. The same applies to poker. Get your fundamentals right and you are in good shape. By folding a lot you are already outplaying the other beginners.

For the hand itself, if you were MP with no posted blind, you should probably fold pre until you are comfortable playing lots of second pair, gutshot style hands OOP. As played, flop is close. We dont know if our overcards are outs, and open ended straight and backdoor flush are not enough to call a pot bet with zero implied odds (bettor has no more money you can win).

Turn, bet smaller. You really want a call and if he has a reasonable hand you will get the money over 2 streets. Actually scratch that just saw potsize, allin.

Good luck.

Last edited by Czech Rays; 03-04-2014 at 01:36 PM.
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 01:27 PM
Fold pre - nice looking hand but diff to play oop against unknowns.

Nice turn, shove is good since SPR (stack-to-pot ratio) < 1.
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 02:43 PM
Donk? Hmmm. Aren't we assuming BTN is a moron? I know people for whom this would be an auto-raise. Hero is almost certain to get odds to peel at least one, no?
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 02:50 PM
fold pre...pre flop raiser bet 12 with a 62 stack...
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 03:04 PM
1. If you are going to play the hand then you have to raise PF

2. As played, lead the flop for $25-30

3. As played, I'd bet $60-$75 on the turn
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
1. If you are going to play the hand then you have to raise PF

2. As played, lead the flop for $25-30

3. As played, I'd bet $60-$75 on the turn
On the turn, betting $60-$75 would leave me with $65-$80 on the river, is that something we're ok with? Would we shove any river and expect to get called due to pot odds for the villain? Check bad rivers and fold to a bet from villain?
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishInToef
On the turn, betting $60-$75 would leave me with $65-$80 on the river, is that something we're ok with? Would we shove any river and expect to get called due to pot odds for the villain? Check bad rivers and fold to a bet from villain?
Yah I would shove any river. You want him to call your turn bet and $140 is a little strong. I mean it all comes down to preference I suppose - some will say shove $140 into $200 on the turn and others will say split the bet in half on the turn and river.

You have the nuts right now. If properly rolled I'm willing to accept the variance of a higher flush potentially getting there because he is still paying more than the odds dictate for it.
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote
03-04-2014 , 03:52 PM
I dont like leading anything in my first hand unless we are forced to act. You dont even have a hand right now and there is a short stack involved. c/c as long as you are getting the right odds to draw to the open-ender.

Later in your session I can lead out here but I generally dont want to show the table how 'loose' I am by betting my draws in the first hand ... Just me ...

Turn bet is fine, 50 to 65 or check. I always assume I have lost the main and start to work the side pot as it's own entity. Some wont like that since you do allow a nut flush draw to draw very cheaply to the both pots ... Just me ..

We are never folding this River ... shove (value bet) all non spades and c/call all spades to catch any bluffs for the side pot. If you bet the Turn you are in too deep to not be all-in here one way or the other. GL
1-2NL: First hand at table - JTs Quote

      
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