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1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG 1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG

09-09-2015 , 05:33 PM
Continuing on hand histories from this thread, here was another big hand I lost.

Villain ($300): Young asian guy who doesn't talk much but seems relatively in tune to the game. TAG, plays well in position. Had not done anything super spazzy, standard raised 6x from any position whenever he had a hand in his range.

Hero ($600): Newish player to live poker, plays relatively ABC but will take stabs and multi barrel certain boards when opportunities look right. Had been sitting at the table for about an hour, was up 2 BIs from GII on a nut flush draw flop vs 2 villains earlier and hit. Villain has position on me, directly to my left.

Preflop:

I am UTG with JTh. I limp expecting someone to raise behind me so I can flat (probably my first mistake). Villain raises to 12, 3 others call, I call.

Flop ($50):

Flop KJ10dd. I check, villain bets 40, everyone folds to me, I call.

Turn ($140):

Turn is 3. I check, villain bets 120 with 110 behind.

Hero....?

For reference, this was my first time playing live poker. Went to Vegas for 10 days, logged 80 hours, learned alot and came out profitable. Highly receptive to constructive criticism.

Thanks!
1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG Quote
09-09-2015 , 06:22 PM
Limping UTG in hopes of someone raising so you can call probably isn't a profitable play with J10. I'm probably folding out of position but if you really want to play you should open the pot and fold to a 3bet. As played I'm probably just calling the flop bet as well and evaluating turn. The turn is as safe as it gets so you have to decide on either getting it in or folding given the stack sizes. I can see villain making this play with KQ, QQ or AK, all of which you are obviously ahead of but many rivers can beat you. I'd fold and not feel too bad about it.
1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG Quote
09-09-2015 , 06:43 PM
What casinos did you play in?
1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG Quote
09-09-2015 , 08:06 PM
Fold pre flop if you expect someone to raise.
Playing OOP sucks. Playing OOP against a raise when we don't have strong reads on our villains sucks even more.
There is probably a cae for folding this pre flop regardless of what we think people will do behind us. Maybe raise if we think that people will fold too much pre flop, and are too fit or fold post flop and foling second pairs and stuff like that.

Flop seems fine.
Turn feels like a jam or fold. If you think that he will bet this big with KQ, AA, AK, and AXdd on the turn, a jam should be profitable. If you think that he slows down with some of those (KQ, AXdd) then we should likely just fold and move along.
1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG Quote
09-09-2015 , 09:26 PM
Others have pointed out that limping JTs, planning to call a raise, is probably not the best play.
That said, sometimes I do this, too. It depends on the table. I have to have reads on my opponents to make this play and I have to know that I'm mentally in a place where I will fold OTF unless I smash the flop. Two pair is hitting the flop pretty hard, but top two is better than bottom two, and this board is coordinated.
When I limp with this planning to call one raise, it's bc stacks are deep, I think my opponents aren't playing well post flop, and bc I don't want to raise and possibly face a three bet, nor do I want to raise and play it heads up out of position.
In this spot, you limp, there's a raise, 3 players call, and you can close the action getting a nice price. This is OK if stacks are pretty deep. It's not great. But if stacks are deep and opponents are generally not good, this can be an Ok play.
I wouldn't say you smashed the flop.
This is a draw heavy board. I kind of like flat calling and seeing a turn. If you jam flop, V is getting a good price with a flush draw or a naked queen. If you wait for a safe turn to jam, you cut down his odds a lot.
As played, jam turn. You're likely to be ahead, you'd be happy to take this down now, and if you're behind a hand like AQ or Q9, or a better two pair, you have full house outs to hopefully get lucky. You're really only drawing dead to a set though you're in big trouble against a few hands.

Basically, when you limp call with JT out of position, this is about as good a spot as you can ask for, and now it's time to jam. But, as others note, not a great spot in which to place yourself.
1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG Quote
09-09-2015 , 09:58 PM
preflop hand is simply not strong enough to raise UTG let alone call. if you are going to play from UTG, RAISE. flop, i'd donk bet as you dont want to give his hand another free card. AP, his bet sizing is too large on both streets so it almost looks like a protection bet with kx maybe kq or ak. could be aq, but i dont see him betting flop that high with the nuts. his hand could contain a lot of draws also. on turn, i am pushing AI. AP, bet sizing again looks too suspicious. i might be pushing AI still and hoping to get called down by draws and or ak
1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG Quote
09-10-2015 , 08:22 AM
Thanks for the input guys. Definitely think I misplayed the start of the hand with the limp.

However I definitely agree that there are more hands in his range and this bet pattern that I beat than that I lose to (as iraise said, AA, KQ, AJ, AK, A/Kxdd, etc).

I end up jamming the turn after I come to the above conclusion.

Villain shows KJo for top two. River is a blank and his hand is good.

With that being said, I think the jam overall was fine. I think at that point there was enough dead money in the pot to justify a call since there are many TP or draw type hands that I am ahead of that he would make this play with.

What I do think is the correction for this hand is contemplating either raising pre, or after limping and getting 4 callers, possibly laying the hand down since I am OOP.
1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG Quote
09-10-2015 , 10:22 AM
Pre is fine imho. Could also raise or fold depending on the table conditions.
AP: I'd c/c OTT, and c/c OTR.
I might also donk OTF. If he raises maybe folding, and if he flats, continue Vbet-ing three streets.
1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG Quote
09-10-2015 , 10:24 AM
Just doesn't seem like he is bluffing two streets this size.
1/2 Vegas, flopped bottom 2P against TAG Quote

      
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