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1/2 Ultra Deep river decision 1/2 Ultra Deep river decision

04-04-2017 , 12:23 PM
Hey folks,

Had a hand that stayed with me last night at a $1/$2 game. I had been running extremely well, picking up so many premium hands it had drawn more than a few comments, and I had stopped getting callers on the last couple of pre-flop raises. Image is strong, having only shown down two hands weaker than either trips or QQ+, both of which - K8s and KTo - were the nuts. In for $300, sitting with about $1,200. Late 20s, perceived as a thinking TAG/nit.

V is a about 35, reputation is a fairly tight player (for this game, in which the stack sizes were NOT extremely large) but had been very wild this game, going from $300 to over $1k and back. He and I had gotten in several hands, and were very much not keen to play each other for massive pots, as the table was quite fishy overall. We've been playing about 5 hours and have played one session before. He has about $1,000.

Also of note, I had announced that this would be my last orbit. Was up around $1k on the night and may have been perceived to be in protection mode. (Which would have been accurate, but given the SLIGHTLY wild nature of this game and my slim bankroll, that was always the case.)

I am in the HJ with AK and raise the $10 button straddle to $35. Had used that amount three times previously, twice with AA and once with QQ. V is in the cutoff and calls, and the small blind calls as well. Pot is $115.

Flop comes KJ6

I Cbet $45 (too small, in retrospect - input? I had been fit-or-fold, but it's unlikely that was noticed by these particular opponents) and V calls. SB folds. We take a turn heads-up with $205 in the pot.

Turn is the T. Checks through. (Second spot I think worthy of debate - losing to a lot of two pair type hands, and I don't want to bet and get raised, as it would be very hard to fold. I'm also not worried about the straight draws, obviously. Halp?)

River is the Q. I don't like it, but don't think there are many flushes that could have called preflop. I did make a straight, though, so the random two pair hands that may have had me on the turn are no good anymore. I decide to check, planning to call a river bet but not wanting to get raised (raises in this game usually involving $100+ "on top"). V bets $55. What do?

Thanks for any input, as always!

Last edited by Aces_Full_47; 04-04-2017 at 12:36 PM.
1/2 Ultra Deep river decision Quote
04-04-2017 , 12:35 PM
Call and rack up. If you're playing scared you should just get up.
1/2 Ultra Deep river decision Quote
04-04-2017 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces_Full_47
Hey folks,

Had a hand that stayed with me last night at a $1/$2 game. I had been running extremely well, picking up so many premium hands it had drawn more than a few comments, and I had stopped getting callers on the last couple of pre-flop raises. Image is strong, having only shown down two hands weaker than either trips or QQ+, both of which - K8s and KTo - were the nuts. In for $300, sitting with about $1,200. Late 20s, perceived as a thinking TAG/nit.

V is a about 35, reputation is a fairly tight player (for this game, in which the stack sizes were NOT extremely large) but had been very wild this game, going from $300 to over $1k and back. He and I had gotten in several hands, and were very much not keen to play each other for massive pots, as the table was quite fishy overall. We've been playing about 5 hours and have played one session before. He has about $1,000.

Also of note, I had announced that this would be my last orbit. Was up around $1k on the night and may have been perceived to be in protection mode. (Which would have been accurate, but given the SLIGHTLY wild nature of this game and my slim bankroll, that was always the case.)

I am in the HJ with AK and raise the $10 button straddle to $35. Had used that amount three times previously, twice with AA and once with QQ. V is in the cutoff and calls, and the small blind calls as well. Pot is $115.

Flop comes KJ6

I Cbet $45 (too small, in retrospect - input? I had been fit-or-fold, but it's unlikely that was noticed by these particular opponents) and V calls. SB folds. We take a turn heads-up with $205 in the pot.

Turn is the T. Checks through. (Second spot I think worthy of debate - losing to a lot of two pair type hands, and I don't want to bet and get raised, as it would be very hard to fold. I'm also not worried about the straight draws, obviously. Halp?)

River is the Q. I don't like it, but don't think there are many flushes that could have called preflop. I did make a straight, though, so the random two pair hands that may have had me on the turn are no good anymore. I decide to check, planning to call a river bet but not wanting to get raised (raises in this game usually involving $100+ "on top"). V bets $55. What do?

Thanks for any input, as always!
Snap call, split the pot with his A, if he has flush oh well, taht will teach you to check the turn
1/2 Ultra Deep river decision Quote
04-04-2017 , 01:16 PM
Definitely bet more on the flop, $60 - $80. The turn is an interesting spot, and I see merits to both betting and checking here. Pot Controlling is fine IMO. The river is a snap call all day.
1/2 Ultra Deep river decision Quote
04-04-2017 , 01:17 PM
bet/fold turn

bet/fold river (possibly bet/call depending on sizing)

as played, call.
1/2 Ultra Deep river decision Quote
04-04-2017 , 02:40 PM
As played I think this is a thin value bet from a thinking villain and I believe a 2 pair hand or set can make this bet so I call all day long. I see zero value raising this river and it is possible this is a "Please RAISE me bet."

The flop bet seems too small but you said you were not getting calls due to running so well so I would understand betting a bit smaller for value to try and get a call.

Turn is tricky, I probably lean towards bet/folding turn but agree that check for pot control is a good option.

Side note - Don't ever announce you are on your last orbit. I did this once or twice when I first started playing but I quickly learned you don't give opponents ANYTHING for free the exception is a home game with friends. Zero remorse for strangers in a casino is a MUST if you want to pull in a decent win rate.
1/2 Ultra Deep river decision Quote
04-05-2017 , 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyRabbit
As played I think this is a thin value bet from a thinking villain and I believe a 2 pair hand or set can make this bet so I call all day long. I see zero value raising this river and it is possible this is a "Please RAISE me bet."

The flop bet seems too small but you said you were not getting calls due to running so well so I would understand betting a bit smaller for value to try and get a call.

Turn is tricky, I probably lean towards bet/folding turn but agree that check for pot control is a good option.

Side note - Don't ever announce you are on your last orbit. I did this once or twice when I first started playing but I quickly learned you don't give opponents ANYTHING for free the exception is a home game with friends. Zero remorse for strangers in a casino is a MUST if you want to pull in a decent win rate.
Thanks for the feedback everyone! As for responses, this was indeed a home game, and only my second time there. I wanted to be courteous and make sure I was invited back, hence the announcement of racking up. I honestly did not intend to play that final orbit without a premium hand, and even then to pot control, as I had all night with these loose cannons! AKo was too good to pass up, though.

Normally, I would definitely have bet larger on the flop - I bet less not because I was leaving, but because I had been so fit or fold thus far (not really being in situations in which I needed to deviate, or in which bluffing would have been profitable). The small bet was to ideally narrow it down to one Villain with some type of Kx hand, yet small enough to not be in a bad spot if I was raised.

The turn check I think may have been bad generally, and may have been bad against my opponent's range, but given the number of draws and two pair possibilities, I wouldn't have been betting for value anymore and no one at this table is getting bluffed off of two pair, a flush draw, or an OESD without absolutely bombing it. Then again, the only flush draws that make sense are Ax, so I can see that one either way. To justify / rationalize the check, V seemed as willing as I was to not play a massive pot, and I didn't expect a large bet, if any. If he fired turn and river, I could safely fold.

On the river, I did snap call. Probably should have at least thought for a moment, but this was a call all day every day. For that price, I could lose a lot of the time, chop a lot of the time, and still call profitably.

V turned over K3 and scooped. So realistically, against this player pool, not much would have gotten him to fold, except maybe a huge flop bet or a similarly yuge c/r.

Simple rotten luck that he has a hand that doesn't make much sense here? Overall, I don't think I played it terribly, but it always sucks to lose a big pot right before leaving even the most fortunate of sessions!
1/2 Ultra Deep river decision Quote
04-05-2017 , 12:42 PM
a bigger bet on the flop is the only thing I would change here.

I like a turn check bc you can't bet/call and play a river profitably and yet vill can raise turn with plenty of hands worse than AK. also checking under-reps your hand and can induce.

definitely don't bet river in this situation, bc you setup an extremely profitably raise spot for villain regardless of his holding.
1/2 Ultra Deep river decision Quote
04-05-2017 , 12:59 PM
Flop bet is a little small. I'd probably go $70.

Turn is a good check. T hits a lot of V's hands including KT and JT, and gives him a lot of OESD and a few random flush draws as well. He can raise our bet with his two pair and draws, and we'll be left guessing.

River is close to me between a bet/fold and check/call. I probably bet/fold for like $100 here. Trying to get value from two pair, and I assume that most Vs aren't raising without a flush. That does put you in the position of possibly getting bluffed off the hand, or accidentally bluffed off the hand by a V value raising with Broadway. If V raised small (like to $250 or less) I probably bet/call on the theory that they could be trying to eke out thin value with Broadway. If V is very capable and could value bet a hand worse than broadway (like KQ?) I check/call, but that's pretty rare.
1/2 Ultra Deep river decision Quote
04-05-2017 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces_Full_47
Thanks for the feedback everyone! As for responses, this was indeed a home game, and only my second time there. I wanted to be courteous and make sure I was invited back, hence the announcement of racking up. I honestly did not intend to play that final orbit without a premium hand, and even then to pot control, as I had all night with these loose cannons! AKo was too good to pass up, though.


If you're gonna announce that you're leaving, kinda understandable in this situation even though I don't think advisable, just don't play any hands. Look at your cards and muck regardless what they are. If anyone asks just say you got garbage. You played this hand super passively on every street but pre.
1/2 Ultra Deep river decision Quote
04-05-2017 , 02:20 PM
70-80 on the flop. As played, b/f turn for 1/2-2/3 pot, b/f river for 1/2 pot. I have no idea why you're checking river - he has so many 2p hands that he gets to the river with that he's not going to fold to a smallish bet but could check behind and take a free showdown. When describing villain, what do you mean by wild? Has he been bluffing a lot, or just playing lots of pots? I wouldn't expect villain to be bluff raising turn, especially if he's not keen on playing big pots with you. That being said, I can't imagine him folding any pair that turned a draw, QJ, QT, KQ, etc on the turn.
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