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1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board 1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board

01-09-2016 , 05:13 PM
Table is deep, effective stacks 600. Blinds 1,2 and 5 straddle.
Hero's image is quite loose aggressive and not afraid to make light calls. Villain is extremely loose preflop.

Folds to hero who opens hijack to 20 with 67 spades. C/o call, sb call, V in BB call and straddle comes along

As2s5x

Check check check and hero leads 65 into 100. Fold fold, V in BB call, utg fold.

Turn 5s

V checks, hero pauses and thinks for about 20 seconds, then bets 160. V jams quite quickly.

Hero??

Last edited by jojobordello; 01-09-2016 at 05:24 PM.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-09-2016 , 05:21 PM
Fold. I would also not have bet the flop.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-09-2016 , 05:56 PM
AP why are we betting turn? we literally have the worst flush possible because 43ss makes the ole straight flush. Not that I expect people to have FHs, but they obv are beating us. What is calling that were ahead of?
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-09-2016 , 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
AP why are we betting turn? we literally have the worst flush possible because 43ss makes the ole straight flush. Not that I expect people to have FHs, but they obv are beating us. What is calling that were ahead of?
I might be hyper-aggro but Im going to double barrell most of my AK's and AQ's in this spot and even the occasional bluff once in a while. Maybe thats fundamentally lolbad in itself but I certainly dont think itd be good to slow down when I actually make my hand.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-09-2016 , 06:11 PM
I think a 5 is calling and aces some of the time for sure.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-09-2016 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojobordello
I might be hyper-aggro but Im going to double barrell most of my AK's and AQ's in this spot and even the occasional bluff once in a while. Maybe thats fundamentally lolbad in itself but I certainly dont think itd be good to slow down when I actually make my hand.
I think bet/folding AQ/AK OTT here would be a good default. If we expect to get c/raised by our V with a flush draw then I would lean towards checking back if we have a big spade.

With our hand it is an easy easy bet fold to a big raise. I think we get called by a lot of worse hands and are crushed by a range that is putting in a big raise.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-09-2016 , 08:00 PM
kookie is right, it's a fold here, I know it's tough to fold since you just caught the hand you were drawing for, but he rarely does that with a worse hand.

I probably would have checked it back OTT against this guy for three reasons:
1. For pot control since you are both deep and the 5s isn't that of a good card for you, he really well might have a FH here or a better flush.
2. It adds deception, anyway is he calling you on turn and a river with a lone A? Probably not. Now the check allows him to think his A is good when you bet OTR.
3. After your check, he might try to value bet an A on the river, or even trying to bluff with a mediocre hand after you showed weakness OTT, betting into you.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-09-2016 , 08:48 PM
I think your line is fine. I think cbet or check are fine on the flop. I would bet the turn, but only about 1/2 PSB. You should get value from Ax, (unlikely) 5x, and single spade hands.

More information on villain is required whether to fold or not. I lean toward a fold because flopped sets/A5 (now boats) make sense for a check-call. Ax with high spade kicker makes sense too. You lose to nine boat combos (AA/55/22/A5s) plus whatever bare flush draws, like KJs or QTs. You're getting about 900:350, so ~2.5:1. You need to beat 4-6 combos. I doubt he does this with enough AxXs to call.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-09-2016 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice_Guy_Eddie
You need to beat 4-6 combos.
Can u clarify this?
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-09-2016 , 09:28 PM
Eddie, we are never taking this pot down on the flop, and getting check/raised with this much equity would be a disaster. I don't see any value in betting here when we can see a free turn card and another round of betting where people will begin to play face up.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-10-2016 , 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojobordello
Can u clarify this?
I believe you're getting 2.5:1 odds on the shove. If you lose to 12 combos in villain's range, you need to beat an additional 5 combos in villain's range to profitably call. In this hand, you lose to a minimum of 9 combos. It's unclear how many bare flushes villain calls the flop with. I estimate you need to beat 4-6 combos depending on the number of flushes you think villain would call.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-10-2016 , 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Eddie, we are never taking this pot down on the flop, and getting check/raised with this much equity would be a disaster. I don't see any value in betting here when we can see a free turn card and another round of betting where people will begin to play face up.
And for these reasons a check makes sense. I would check sometimes. I'd also bet sometimes to build a bigger pot when I hit and get folds from better hands. Our ~20% equity on the next street plus whatever small FE makes betting an acceptable play.

I would never bet here as a pure bluff with almost no equity, say 9d8d.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-10-2016 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice_Guy_Eddie
And for these reasons a check makes sense. I would check sometimes. I'd also bet sometimes to build a bigger pot when I hit and get folds from better hands. Our ~20% equity on the next street plus whatever small FE makes betting an acceptable play.

I would never bet here as a pure bluff with almost no equity, say 9d8d.
The pot is already 50 BB's - we don't need to build it any further with 7-high. We have likely 0 FE vs. the field as a whole. Betting only makes it more expensive for us to realize our equity on the turn. A 4 or an 8 will give us an OESD as well so I'm content to see a turn and what develops.

Villain bet sizing on the turn probably won't be very good either which should allow us to draw at a better than direct odds price.
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote
01-10-2016 , 04:32 AM
I went into the tank and concluded that there should be no value hands even this villain would be shoving here that I beat. I thought also thought bluff and semibluff were very unlikely the way he jammed. As I was about to fold I thought "wait a second, what the hell am i doing folding flushes at 1/2 when I bluff alot and Im just here for a good time" . I got a big creepy grin on my face and nodded and said i call. The river bricked and V confidently flipped over 56o for turned trips with no kicker... I was completely shocked at how bad his jam was I didnt think I could ever put him on a naked 5. The dealer had me push my stacks in cause we were extremely close i barely had him covered and I had to double check with her that I had indeed won the hand lol..
1/2 Turned flush and face check raise shove on paired board Quote

      
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