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1/2 turn play against fish 1/2 turn play against fish

04-21-2015 , 08:41 PM
Hero - 400$, TAG image
Villain - 500$, loose preflop, gets sticky with a lot of small pairs and weak hands, always calls flop with any piece of the board

Villain limps from UTG, Hero raises $10 from MP with 9s9c, HJ flats, Villain flats

Flop- ($33) 7d6s4s Villain donks 30$, hero raises to 90$, HJ folds, villain flats

Turn- ($213) 8h Villain checks, Hero bets 150$, Villain c/r all-in, hero calls.

Spoiler:
River(2 times) - Qh, 2d, villain tables 8s8d


So on the turn i percieved the 8h as a good card for me, since it gives me 8 more outs to the nuts and is not a spade. The bet size i think is standard, and when he spazzes out i'm getting 32% on the call. Even against a worst-case scenario range of sets, overpairs and 2 pair I have 34% equity. Thoughts?

Edit: After further thinking I think the Turn is either a check or a smaller bet so I can still fold if he raises.

Last edited by madim; 04-21-2015 at 09:02 PM.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-21-2015 , 09:20 PM
depends on your assessment of what fishy villain gets all in with. If he's got a zillion spade draws, then we're ahead most of the time and let's go. If we're mostly behind when we get all in on the turn, check back.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-21-2015 , 09:46 PM
Haven't read spoiler. If it contains results, your better off just deleting it. you'll get better discussion.

How aggro has V been? His flop donk is almost full pot, which is a red flag with most passive station-types.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-21-2015 , 09:58 PM
Just call flop, raising is waaay too thin. You are deep enough to not want to get 200bbs in on that board with just 99. Check back turn.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-22-2015 , 03:44 PM
agree with above, call flop, check back turn, villian isnt donking into flop with a spade draw, and isnt continuining on turn without hands that are way ahead of yours.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-22-2015 , 04:14 PM
I wouldn't raise otf either. Your description has him calling with bad hands, not lead/calling. Once he leads your station description isn't applicable and you need to change your approach.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-22-2015 , 05:01 PM
Bluff or value bet on the turn?
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-22-2015 , 07:27 PM
obviously OP feels its a value bet as he clearly stated he feels the 8 improves his hand...i see where hes coming from but not the right spot
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-22-2015 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madim
Even against a worst-case scenario range of sets, overpairs and 2 pair...
And straights...?

Pot sized donk bet from this guy might mean some sort of strength, but isn't nutted... he's going to have lots of 7x, 65 type hands as well. Calling is fine, raising against fish is much better IMO. He's not reading hands well and isn't going to 3b any hands you're beating, but he will call with worse, and you're ahead of his range. Turn is a bad card for you - even though you pick up a draw, it improves his range, please check it back. Betting here is essentially a bluff, and bluffing this board is turrible. Also, passive fish is never c/r TURN without nutted hands, ever. Especially after the flop action.

River won't be fun, but if he's a passive fish that you haven't seen bluffing much, that'll make life easier. I probably end up paying off a smallish bet, just laying down to a large one.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-22-2015 , 11:29 PM
Flop, flat against this sizing.

Turn is absolutely a check.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-23-2015 , 11:10 AM
Agree that flatting flop and checking turn are best. (Now to read spoiler.)
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-23-2015 , 11:40 AM
Bink then bet. Not the other way around (unless you have a nut draw and FE).
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-23-2015 , 12:08 PM
Call the flop and as played check back the turn.

In terms of results,

Spoiler:
They are totally irrelevant.

You were very lucky on the flop that V had one of the few pre-flop hands that donks flop so large and that you're beating so soundly. You are unlucky on the turn that he binked on you. Sometimes results mean more than other times, and, imo, and in this situation, they really don't say anything about whether your line is good or bad.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-23-2015 , 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmyrage
Bluff or value bet on the turn?
Exactly.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-23-2015 , 03:49 PM
Turn is a pretty bad card for your hand, and great for a lot of his range.
Check behind on the turn.

Turn is likely a fold. But we are getting a really good price given the bad bet.
He doesn't have to have too many combo draws here for this to be break even. But his line is super strong here and I expect to be beat a LOT.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-23-2015 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
Turn is likely a fold. But we are getting a really good price given the bad bet. He doesn't have to have too many combo draws here for this to be break even. But his line is super strong here and I expect to be beat a LOT.
^ well as played, the pot is 663 and we have 150 left.

We're getting 4.4:1.

If we're always behind, we usually have 2 set outs and 8 OESD outs.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote
04-23-2015 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman
^ well as played, the pot is 663 and we have 150 left.

We're getting 4.4:1.

If we're always behind, we usually have 2 set outs and 8 OESD outs.
Except when we're behind to any 5x which leaves us 6-8 clean outs.
1/2 turn play against fish Quote

      
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