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1/2 - TT overpair in large pot 1/2 - TT overpair in large pot

12-02-2011 , 04:01 AM
1/2 at Borgata. Sorry if this isn't too interesting but I'm really lost lately and I'm making all the wrong moves. Not sure if my reads make any sense here.

Villain1 ($200) is a 40's white guy. Seems to play pretty tight (over a few orbits). Also seems to fear the nuts.

He started with around $80 or $90. He called a $13 raise from me with KQ. Flop came K93dd, I had a set of 9's. He just called $25 into $36 on the flop. Flush hit on the turn, I shoved for his last $40 or $50, he called. Villain said he was afraid I had the ace high flush. Another hand he said that a river bet had to be the nuts, and was surprised it wasn't.

Villain 2 ($200) 60's white guy. Epic calling station. Loves to l/c me, and then usually c/f. I took down a few pots from him (when i actually had TPTK etc), but for all he knows I'm FOS.

Hero ($300) Sat down a little while ago. Raised a few big hands, took down pots with no SD. Villain is new so he probably didn't see much of that.

6 limps
Hero (Sb) 1010 raises $20
Villain1 (BB) calls $20
Folds to Villain2, V2 calls $20

Pot ~ 65
Flop: 2c2h3c
Hero bets $40, Villain 1 raises to $100, Villain 2 folds, hero?

This is pretty sick, because from what I've seen of V1 he seems to be tight. He also seems to fear the nuts. I think this is never, ever a deuce from this guy.

I only have a small sample size, but if he's actually a weak/tight nit the only hands that make sense to me here are AA or KK. He seems to fear the nuts all the time and IMO if he had JJ or maybe QQ he might just call fearing I have AA. So IF (it's a big if) he's a nit, it looks like a huge pp, or maybe some kind of spazz hand.

I only have a few orbits, so he might actually not be nitty. In that case, I think his range includes PP's (which I may or may not beat), OC/FD's, and maybe some random spazz hands. I may look FOS since with exception of the set hand I cbet a bunch of times and took down pots with no showdowns.

I'm getting like 2-1 here. Have 2 questions.

1) Do you fold or shove here (he only has like $40 left so I can't call).
2) If you're folding, what would you need to have to call here? Would you fold JJ, QQ, KK? AcKc?
3) Assuming villain just flatted this, would you guys be shoving a lot of turns? On an offsuit 7 turn, for instance, do you shove this?
1/2 - TT overpair in large pot Quote
12-02-2011 , 06:14 AM
I can find a fold here against this specific villain.

He's clearly a nit who sees monsters under the bed. I wouldn't be surprised if he had KK here and didn't want to 3bet pre but wanted to wait until there was no Ace OTF before c/r.

All I know is that this villain does not have a 2 in his range and he doesn't c/r with 88/99. I don't even think he c/r JJ. It's either 33 or QQ+.
1/2 - TT overpair in large pot Quote
12-02-2011 , 06:19 AM
Oh, and to answer your other questions:

2. I would call QQ+ and snap call AcKc. JJ would be a tough decision. It's close, but I'd lean towards a fold.

3. If villain flats and turn is a 7, I might b/f something small like 1/2 pot and try to check down river. If it's a 9 and he leads out, I fold because now we don't beat anything. If turn is an 8, all we beat now is 99.

Against this villain you have to have a monster once you get resistance. TT is not that hand.
1/2 - TT overpair in large pot Quote
12-02-2011 , 06:44 AM
a) if he really thought you had the nut flush in the earlier hand he'd have folded

b) on this hand, seems like KK ... who feared an A on the flop so he could get away cheaply. now, he's making you pay to hit your A. it's possible he has 33 as well.

i'd call with Ac Kc and AA and KK for sure. QQ possibly. It would help if each of those hands had the club
1/2 - TT overpair in large pot Quote
12-02-2011 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb
a) if he really thought you had the nut flush in the earlier hand he'd have folded

b) on this hand, seems like KK ... who feared an A on the flop so he could get away cheaply. now, he's making you pay to hit your A. it's possible he has 33 as well.

i'd call with Ac Kc and AA and KK for sure. QQ possibly. It would help if each of those hands had the club
I think he's one of those guys who does the "i know you have the nuts but I'm calling anyway."

I might not have said in the first post, but this guy only had about 2 or 3 orbits. I'm not entirely sure what manner of fish he is. It's just so strange that he would have this MUBS, but call pre and raise the flop here.

He didn't raise with TP2K + 2nd NFD when he had $50 left. So I just scratch my head why he would call there and raise anything worse than KK here.

It's a $60 preflop pot and SPR is like 3 on the flop (3 way though). I know live has different considerations, but is this really that easy of a b/f given that I don't have a ton of info except for 1 hand where he called anyway, and another hand that he gave a bad read?

Even if he's nitty, he called KQs for $15, so I don't think it's insane to think he'd call $20 with less than KK/AA.
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12-02-2011 , 02:07 PM
My shoving range here is QQ+

NH if you folded
1/2 - TT overpair in large pot Quote
12-02-2011 , 04:34 PM
Interested to see what happened. Against these types of players (since I am least half of one myself) I'd put him on 33. But, who knows, he could be trying to see if you just have two overcards with a hand like 77.
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12-02-2011 , 05:02 PM
Like everyone said, it seems like he has KK and is in "better just call pre in case in ace comes" mode. Putting villains on one or two specific hands is usually pretty bad but as you described this villain, we can basically narrow him down to like KK, and some QQ and AA.
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12-02-2011 , 08:48 PM
I'm folding here.

Villain is committing basically his stack here on the flop. I don't see this happening with a flush or just top pair.
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12-02-2011 , 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyDonk
He's clearly a nit who sees monsters under the bed. I wouldn't be surprised if he had KK here and didn't want to 3bet pre but wanted to wait until there was no Ace OTF before c/r.
Yeah, but on the same rationale of monsters under the bed, he would probably be afraid of AA also, so he would just flat. Small difference, but I personally see 33 from the OP's description. If he has a big pocket pair himself I just see check calling here.
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12-02-2011 , 10:13 PM
I always get myself into trouble in these spots, because I can not imagine this guy not 3betting JJ+oop. So I ship. There are remarkable nits I fold to. This could be one of those nits. Now that I think about it I usually muck to the nits. But get trapped by tricky aggro players.
1/2 - TT overpair in large pot Quote
12-03-2011 , 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledoutwbottomset
I always get myself into trouble in these spots, because I can not imagine this guy not 3betting JJ+oop. So I ship. There are remarkable nits I fold to. This could be one of those nits. Now that I think about it I usually muck to the nits. But get trapped by tricky aggro players.
I guess this was my thinking too.

I actually just shipped, even though I felt kind of sick about it. He showed AA, which is what I was afraid of. I lost.

I know I should have folded but I was tired and a little bit on tilt. Oh well

It was pretty weird, but I guess it worked out for him flatting AA, because if he 3b me pre I'm pretty sure I fold very happily.
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