1/2 NLHE, 12:30pmish
Player descriptions
V1 ($200, BB): thirtysomething white guy. Fairly musclar and wearing a t-shirt and jeans and has a blue-collar look. I have never played with him before so he is not a regular at this casino. He came to the table with $200 about an orbit ago and has been fairly tight soo far.
V2: (covers all, UTG): fortysomething east indian guy. He has one of those phone ear pieces in and he took a work call earlier at the table. I have played with him once or twice before and he is pretty much loose passive. He usually doesnt have this big a stack but I guess he is running good today.
V3 ($400, MP): Loose passive middle aged white guy. Not too relevant to this hand.
Hero: ($450, BU): Youngest and by far the most aggressive. I have been at the table for about 2 orbits and have raised 4 times. Most of the time I have had to give up b/c 1)too many players called or 2)bad board texture to cbet. I am a regular at this casino and have played many hours with most people at the table but not V1 or V2. Other than the hand I have raised, I have folded most of my other hands so technically I am have a lower VPIP than almost everyone at the table but probally seem LAGy. Bought in for $500.

Hero is dealt J8
5 limps to Hero, Hero raises to $15, V1 calls, V2 calls, V3 calls

I raised preflop to try to get it HU or 3ways to set up for profitable situation postflop IP.

Flop is JJ6 ($67)
checked to Hero, Hero bets $30, V1 calls, V2 calls, V3 folds

Sizing mistake obviously here. Optimal Sizing?

Turn is a 6 ($157) DING DING DING
checked to Hero, Hero bets ???

Optimal Sizing here?

$40, $100 as played

J8o is too weak to isolate into five limpers imo so i'd just limp on the button. J8s probably fine if you have a good grasp on your opponents' play (ie you're fairly certain you can get it HU or 3way).

Also raise size is not congruent with trying to get the pot shorthanded.


As played I'd bet 40 on flop and check back turn and go for thin value on the river.

Can you get two more streets from anyone not holding the case jack? And unless you bet something silly small (like $30 again), is there any way they will put you on anything other than what you have?

Since you have position here, I can see checking here to give someone a chance to catch a third heart or hit a false two outer with their underpair. Regardless of what comes, you are raising any river bet and if the river checks to you, put in a PSB or even overbet the pot to look like you are trying to buy the pot.

Yes, someone awful might call 1/2 PSB turn and river bets with a 6 or midpair but that same person will also call an overbet on the river if the turn checks through so the value gained on that front is pretty much a wash. Where checking is better is against semi-thinking opponents who will read check turn/bomb river as a bluff line.

This feels like auto pilot turn sizing

auto pilot post... been awake 24 hrs. agree with sao, pura - check turn

Check like your scared

you should be scared because someone has to have 66 - or else why would three villains call that flop? 6 jacks in the deck?

Agree to check turn, PSB river.

so pot control?

Pot control? Get some value on the river. If VIL has 77-99,or AK is he calling bet on turn and river? Doubtful.

so if he has 6x is he going to fold to a turn bet?

Bet 30 again. With 2 callers the pot will be 247. But really you are doing it because since there is some chance you are bluffing, they have to call and because it looks weak and you might get raised. You significantly increase the pot size with a little bet and make 2 calls on the river even more likely. You are going to see a jack and a 6 and the jacks are gonna split the pot.

With 5 limpers 15 is way too small with a hand like J8.

Cbet to 40 and I agree with the reasons for checking turn but the little value you can pick up by under repping your hand may now outweigh the value you can get with your lag image. No 6 is folding and a smaller bet to about 80 may get looked up light or a stubborn flush draw. Shove river obv if called

Bet the largest amount you think V2 would call with A6.

I did end up going with a smaller sized turn bet b/c I wanted to keep flush draws and 2pair type hands in their range. I am glad you guys tend to agree with me. I also think a check on the turn is fine too but I slightly prefer a smaller bet to set up for a bigger pot on the river. I was wondering if anyone advocated a bigger bet (ie:$100 ballpark OTT) and it seems like not many people are advocating that sizing.

Turn bet is good. OTR I'd bet like $80 or so as I don't think even 6x is calling more than $100 on the river unless you have a crazy image (in which case you should bet bigger on the turn)

On the river, you're losing to JT/66, chopping with Jx, and beating 6x hands.

Basically, your choice is to bet big to blow Jx off a chop or bet smaller to extract value from 6x or even maybe A-high that hopes he is chopping with AK. If I want to extract value from 6x, I most likely want to convince him that we are chopping.

Against some players, I might consider betting a number less than $100 because that represents a threshold for them. $75-90 might be the most I can extract from those players. Others might only call with a weak hand if you don't charge them more than twice the turn bet, so $40 might be right.

I suspect somewhere around $60-70 is going to be max I might get a player to call, but a smaller bet might be more likely to get two callers, so I think somewhere in the neighborhood of $40-50 might be the right amount to get calls by two players who can really only beat a bluff.

So, I've basically said anywhere from $40-95 makes sense on the river unless you have further data that suggests you can get someone to make a hero call against a big bet.