Little bit of a weird spot from the other night at 1/2

Reads
V1 - Mid 20's white kid, ordered 2 beers as soon as he sat down is having fun but isn't crazy spewy, plays mostly loose passive, standard check/calls or normalish bets in standard spots but makes over bets with very strong hands. Has been at the table 2 orbits and I witnessed the following 3 hands. V bought in for 100.
Hand 1
UTG opens to 12, UTG+1 calls 12, V in CO jams for $90. All fold and V shows JJ.
Hand 2
CO opens to 15, button calls 15, SB folds, V in BB jams for 150. All fold, V shows AA.
Hand 3
UTG limps, MP1 raises to 7, folds to V in BB who calls, UTG calls.
Flop ($22) - 235
V Checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets 15, V and UTG call.

Turn ($67) 235A
Checks around

River ($67) 235A4
V leads for $20, both UTG and MP1 call, V wins with 86

OTTH:
V ($~230) limps UTG
V2 - UTG +2 limps ( doesn't matter here but is OMC/$150)
Hero covers, (Late 30's WG Not sure V has really notice me in the 2 orbits he has been there) raises on the BTN to 15 with AQ
Folds to V1 who calls, and V2 calls as well.

Flop ($48) - AJ7
V1 leads for $25, V2 folds, Hero Calls

Turn($98) - AJ7A
As soon as the dealer puts the turn up V1 insta jams for ~$190.

Hero?
Fist pump call, sigh call, sigh fold?
This is basically never a bluff in my mind.

It's a meh call.

Call. What's villain repping here? Also these "overbet spots" were all done preflop with a short stack - this doesn't necessarily mean overbets post are necessarily nutted hands. The only hands you're really losing to are AJ and 77, and He probably doesn't shove these because there are no draws he needs to protect against. he could also be doing this with 89, 910, and Q10 - all the clubs combos and maybe some of the non-club combs. He may also just overvalue A10 or another Ax hand and he doesn't want you to draw. Standard call. if he has a boat or AK, just chalk it to a cooler from a villain taking an awful line.

Not folding. But not super pumped about calling.

I think its a fold given villain description, the only hand hero might beat is at, chop also possible - even though sizing is awful for value hands villain has allready demonstrated he would rather miss value with big hands than risk getting sucked out on

Limping aj is the trademark of bad tags in live cash games in my experience

So is limping any Ax hand. As well as overplaying those hands


Lot of Ax we beat. Not thrilled, but not folding

Somewhere between fistpump and sigh call

Agreed this very unlikely to be a bluff.

The three hand histories don't look terrible to me (JJ jam is right; AA is marginal, but RR to something like $60 with $90 behind isn't all that different; 86s hand wasn't bad)

With that in mind, I'd expect V to raise with AK here.

He might well have AJ or A7. He has jammed JJ before, but stack sizes are different now and a jam here would be bad. He may well have JJ or 77. Given the three aces we can see, I'm going to significantly discount V's having two more.

So we're behind:
AK (unlikely, given no PFR)
AJ (I think somewhat unlikely)
A7s 1 combo
JJ (3 combos)
77 (3 combs)

We're chopping with AQ (somewhat unlikely)

We're ahead of
A2s - A9s 7 combos

We're getting 3:2 and probably have more equity than that. I think folding would be bad.

Thinking a loose passive 1/2 player is only playing Ax sooted is probably a mistake

Granted, the same conclusion is derived so it's moot

V also could not think he is bluffing and still have a much worse hand. We've all seen Vs confidently play/turn over weak hands that they thought were the nuts. On paired boards, it's not uncommon to see Vs massively overvalue trips weak kicker

It's rarely a bluff but he has ace rag for value and sometimes random hands like KJ. This is a call.

Not folding.

Agreed, wasn't implying the way he played these were terrible, just sharing what i observed, in the JJ hand, many recs will smooth call instead of jamming. The AA hand, lots of recs with that stack might 3b to something like 35-40 and then Jam any flop. The 86 hand i thought was a good value bet that got 2 players who were playing the board to call. My takeaway was that this V realized when he had value with these hands and bet them aggressively in the first 2 and made a good value bet in the 86 hand. So he wasn't just necessarily clicking buttons.

I tend to disagree, the times this type of player shows up with these hands is slim to none.

So this is actually why I posted this hand. I am specifically interested in loose passive mostly average players like above. (Lags/OMC/Nits are different) I see this type of thing posted somewhat often, "Call, if he has X it's a cooler".

I have been paying attention to this a bunch lately in the live games I play (whether i am in the hand or not). At 1/2 when V's put in bets/raises of ~$75+, as we always point out is almost always a strong hand or at least a hand that villain considers very strong. I am trying to find what our calling ranges should be in these types of spots, or a way to better range villains definition of a "strong" hand instead of just closing our eyes, calling and hoping for the best.

Using this hand as an example
Seems super nitty to fold AQ as we are only behind ~7-10 combos and we also have at least 3 outs to win(sometimes as many as 7) and chop outs as well.

How weak of an A do we call with here? My button raising range, as others on here, can contain lots of suited Aces, so i could wind up here with A9/8s as well for example.

Trying to determine if we really need to always shrug and say ""Call, if he has X it's a cooler" for 40-100bb bets in some of these spots, reducing some of these calls when we are likely behind can save a fair amount of money.


The fact that many people were like "call but not loving it" shows that maybe we can get away from these spots sometimes, will keep my eye out for more hands like this I see and post as I come across them.
Would love for any others to post any recent similar spots, whether V had it or not.

not exactly the same, and there's more context here, but hand from Saturday night:

MAWG V raises to 6 from MP $600 deep. H calls on button with QdJd. 5 ways to QsTsQc flop. V 20, H 60, fold to V who goes 170, H calls. V shoves 420 on 3x turn, H calls. V had KK.

In my games (1/2 and 2/3 at the Commerce) it is very common for regs and nits to limp AK UTG.

And it is rare that a turn shove over $50 isn't TPTK+.

So much that I am trying to program myself to STOP AND THINK when a turn or river shove or bet over $50 or $60 happens (obv bigger if the pot is bigger) to review the hand history.

And fold more than I would otherwise.

Exploitable? Yes. How often do I get exploited? My guess is 5%, surely less than 10%. And sometimes 30-40% villain shows you, when they do they have the goods

that is a pretty fishy turn bet. throw out AK and JJ, since he is almost always going to 3! with those hands. Which just leaves AJ, A7, and 77 that beat us.

As dry as that flop is, I would think that he would CR with AJ or 77. He could just be making a move with like JQ. When you just flat the flop, he thinks that you have some pocket pair less than an ace.

I would show an ace and ask him if that is good.

as played, meh, I would call it off.

Tough call here........... If you told me you had no reads on him or no history I would call.

The fact that he overshoved twice before and had JJ and AA makes it seem like he shoves big hands.

However, he could have A/10 here or A/9 and perceive that to be a strong hand you know.

It's a tough fold.... but I would put him on a full house and maybe if I was feeling nitty I'd fold. But I can't fault you for calling.

I'm also not folding. I expect this type of V to raise AK, but not guaranteed. JJ for sure though. But I also expect to see potentially every suited Ax, if not a ton of weaker ones, and it's perfectly standard for Vs at this limit to treat any of these as the nuts OTT. I think WP.