1/2: TPTK facing donk/donk/donk river shove - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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1/2: TPTK facing donk/donk/donk river shove

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12-08-2018 , 10:54 PM

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Hero opens $12 in HJ with ATo,
CO, SB BB call.

Flop (48): T75r
SB donks 35, only H calls

Turn (118): 5x
SB donks 50, H calls

River (218): 2x
SB shoves 160, H ???

V is a young guy who’s a little loose pre but nothing out of the line in the 2 hours we’ve been playing at the table. Can we fold here?

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12-08-2018 , 10:56 PM

wait

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,115

Does he know you're a huge nit?

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12-08-2018 , 11:10 PM

momo_uk

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Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by wait

Does he know you're a huge nit?

Wait, what?

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12-08-2018 , 11:11 PM

crsseyed

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,024

villain dependent of course, but I fold this river

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12-08-2018 , 11:22 PM

krilleater

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 666

I probably call. Donks do this more often with TP than sets or 2-pair.

What is hero's image? Have you played together before?

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12-08-2018 , 11:34 PM

momo_uk

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Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by krilleater

I probably call. Donks do this more often with TP than sets or 2-pair.

What is hero's image? Have you played together before?

I have an aggro winning image. But nothing out of line. Shown down the goods earlier vs someone else.

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12-08-2018 , 11:41 PM

crsseyed

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,024

OP: Is villain doing this OOP with KT/QT/JT? there's your answer....

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12-08-2018 , 11:47 PM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,509

Sure looks like a fold to me. I'd fold to the second donk if it weren't so small.

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12-08-2018 , 11:48 PM

atenesq

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 341

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

Flop (48): T75r
SB donks 35, only H calls

Turn (118): 5x
SB donks 50, H calls

River (218): 2x
SB shoves 160, H ???

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

nothing out of line. Shown down the goods earlier vs someone else.

right then so

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12-09-2018 , 12:04 AM

#10

momo_uk

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Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

Sure looks like a fold to me. I'd fold to the second donk if it weren't so small.

What range did you assign him? He’s leading flop with 2p and sets?

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12-09-2018 , 12:06 AM

#11

momo_uk

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Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by crsseyed

OP: Is villain doing this OOP with KT/QT/JT? there's your answer....

No idea.

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12-09-2018 , 12:06 AM

#12

momo_uk

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Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by atenesq

right then so

What does that have to do with my image though? He’s just playing his hand.

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12-09-2018 , 12:53 AM

#13

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

I'd call pretty quick, not super thrilled but never folding here unless vs a nit. the 5 reduces his flopped two pair combos and reduces 55, we block 1010 (only one left), he could have a bunch of spazzes here and every straight draw busted.

Pre is fine, stone cold bottom of my HJ opening range, would not open A9o

pre std.. flop std, turn std, river is meh but i call

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12-09-2018 , 01:12 AM

#14

momo_uk

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Minatorr

Marry me.

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12-09-2018 , 01:18 AM

#15

Minatorr

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Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

Marry me.

He had a bluff, or pair turned into bluff?

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12-09-2018 , 01:27 AM

#16

momo_uk

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Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minatorr

He had a bluff, or pair turned into bluff?

T7sooooteed.

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12-09-2018 , 01:44 AM

#17

DrChesspain

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Posts: n/a

Although at first it felt like a call, AT is really at the subbasement of our value range.

Fold.

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12-09-2018 , 06:20 AM

#18

momo_uk

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Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrChesspain

Although at first it felt like a call, AT is really at the subbasement of our value range.

Fold.

True but a triple donk line on that board from a 1/2 player beats AT you think? It’s just such an outlier. KT maybe a clearer fold, but AT seems like a very close call/fold situation.

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12-09-2018 , 10:15 AM

#19

Garick

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,509

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

What range did you assign him? He’s leading flop with 2p and sets?

On this dry board where he has to think a c/r is going to lose his customer, yes. Especially crappy 2p that is afraid of getting counterfeited if you check back.

I think his range here is like 55,77,57s,AT, some combos of T7s (all that called pre), some half the combo of TT (sometimes tries to play it trappy). Maybe every once in a while he has 68s or 89s if the turn brought in a BDFD, but very rarely.

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12-09-2018 , 10:30 AM

#20

momo_uk

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Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

And what about all other Tx???

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12-09-2018 , 10:50 AM

#21

Garick

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,509

He's never shoving river with it after you called twice, imo. He doesn't sound sophisticated enough to be turning it into a bluff (and this would be a bad board for it anyway), not drooly enough to be donking 3 streets with it for value.

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12-09-2018 , 01:07 PM

#22

atenesq

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 341

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

True but a triple donk line on that board from a 1/2 player beats AT you think? It’s just such an outlier. KT maybe a clearer fold, but AT seems like a very close call/fold situation.

what

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12-09-2018 , 04:34 PM

#23

Minatorr

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Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

True but a triple donk line on that board from a 1/2 player beats AT you think? It’s just such an outlier. KT maybe a clearer fold, but AT seems like a very close call/fold situation.

Yeah, I think KT/QT/J10/109 are very clear folds since they're at the bottom of our range, and we arrive to the river to 10x+, sets, and FHs. And that A10 is pretty close.

I think we should basically almost always call JJ+, they could even be value betting worse (if we have AA, they can have JJ/QQ very rarely), and apparently we beat counterfeited two pair assuming we have an overpair. Ime i've seen the weirdest hands show up from triple donk lines.

But these are spots where it's probably ok to pass up the variance, because I believe at best this is a super slightly +EV call, sometimes definitely -ev depending on the player

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