Playing 1/2 Live NL in a local poker room. A group of friends/out of town tourists (young guys late 20s) are at the table. They are drinking, having a good time, playing drink pots, etc. Most of them don't really know how to play that well - lots of confusion about posting blinds, when to check/bet, etc.

Effective stack size is $121

OTTH:

Pre-flop:
-Hero (UTG) has AK and makes it 15 to go.
-Villian (BTN) throws in 15 without much thought. He is probably one of the worse players in the group of friends.


Flop (33): Q52
-Hero bets $20.
-Villian calls


Turn (73): T
-Villian tries to shove all-in out of turn for $91 more. He states that he is shoving no matter what, and leaves his bet out.
-Hero checks, and then Villian confirms his all-in for $91.

This put me in a tough spot. On one hand, I was planning to bet the turn and call any re-raise. Thinking back, even though Villian plans to shove should I still bet out? Villian could have not gone all-in, but based my read this wasn't likely (i.e. he stood up and stepped back from the table).

Do I have the correct odds to call here? Say he has a pair; doesn't this give me at most 18 outs (9 spades, 3 J, 3K, 3A)? If he has anything better (i.e. a pair with a A/K I'm drawing even thinner). I suppose he could have some draws here, but is it enough given the type of player?

Any feedback on the line and/or thinking would be appreciated. I felt like I played this wrong.

Without doing the math in detail I think it's close on a purely pot odds basis vs your guesstimate range, but given tourists description, they're not there to fold, they're probably bluffing more than 1/2, plus bunch of draws, I think this puts this pushes this into the camp of call.

Just gamble with the guy.

I gamble here. If we are behind, we likely have a ton of outs. Plus, it's good for the game and should pay off in the end if you use it well.

He paired the 10. Zero doubt in my mind. He probably has something stupid like T7.

Having said that, in most cases we still have a million outs, and I'm happy to gamble knowing even if I lose the chips are just going to the worst player at the table.

Here is the result of the hand:
- Hero tank calls. Villain turns over KQ

River: J
- We hit out straight and Villain and his friends are slightly tilted.

I was pretty surprised how strong Villain was here, and thought this was probably near the top of what he could have.

I figured I was probably behind, but had a hard time laying this down given the out of turn shove and my expectations of the hand (i.e. I was planning to commit anyway).

There was some mention regarding how its good for the game - and thinking back to the table I agree. After making this call, he re-bought and his friends started playing badly against me/trying to take me out. I am guessing this hand may have helped down the road as I was much stronger when getting it in and was able to stack one of them later.

You're probably always behind and don't have odds to call.

If you have 14 outs on average, calling is -$20 EV. Not an expensive gamble in terms of cash, but probably a decent chunk of time as a multiple of a 1/2 winrate.

Side question: is there any merit to calling floor here? He's clearly angle shooting when he says he's going all in no matter what.

I don't see any merit. The floor is just going to say that it's binding if Hero checks and not binding if Hero bets. If V has done this 3 times already then there would be merit in getting a clear angle shooter off the table if desired. No floor is going to do anything meaningful for the first infraction however IME.

I don't agree with this -- drunk person who OP says doesn't know when to post blinds and doesn't know when the action is on him could very easily just be over-excited and ram his chips into the middle. I doubt it's an angle based on the rest of the OP.

Also, nothing changes in pretty much any room I've ever been in -- this particular out of turn action is almost always binding. Sometimes it's binding the moment it happens, other times it's binding the moment Hero checks, but regardless, I believe from a strategy perspective, when your opponent gives you the button in this way you should check and lock it in, then play your hand whatever way is best.

The only thing calling the floor does is run off the group of drunken guys who are good for the game!

I don't think the shove was an angle. That can easily be a mistake. The issue is that he then insisted he was going to continue doing it.

Oh I parsed that bit as V saying they're all-in this hand regardless, but that they'd try to do better at the procedure in the future.

Not sure what you're saying here. He shoved out of turn, was told it wasn't his action, and responded that he was shoving no matter what, and you're worried that's an angle? That's pretty much exactly what I'd expect a drunk tourist to do. In fact, I've played at FL dog tracks and that's exactly what I've seen a drunk tourist actually do. Many times.

IMO it would be a much bigger red flag if he'd announced he was all-in, was forced to pull it back, then tried to check behind me.

Villain: bets his stack out of turn, when told it's not his turn to bet he says I don't care I'm going all-in anyways and leaves his bet out...

Hero: my read is that Villain is going all-in whether i bet or not...LOL good read my man.

I think when we are behind (which is most of the time), we will often have all the cards (9 spades, 3 aces, 3 kings, 3 jacks) to hit. At worst we have 10 outs. Plus this guy could be misreading his hand because he’s so drunk.

I’d gamble it up.


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