1/2 NL Casino

UTG Limps, has $51, easily exploitable player.

MP Limps, Old man, Loose limps, weak, passive 300 behind

SB unsure completes

BB Hero checks K9 300 behind

Flop

$8pot
K95

SB checks

BB Hero bets $10

UTG calls $10
MP Old man calls $10
SB folds

$34pot
K95
Turn 4

Hero bets $20
UTG raises to $39 all in
MP Old man alls $39
Hero calls $19 more.

$138pot
K95
Turn 4
River J

Hero checks
Old man bets $40
Hero folds

Thoughts?

I'd guess I'm ahead of UTG but lose to old guy.

UTG is exploitable how?

But the action was good on every street: bet, b/f, c/f. I'd fix the sizing though. OTF there are only 1 KK and 1 99 combos, and 3 55. And KK and 99 are probably raising pre, maybe not 99, so 4 combos of 55 and 99 are possible that beat us and have us in pretty bad shape. I'd way overbet the pot, don't be stifled by the size of a limped pot, there are tons of draws out there, charge them. I'd bet at least $20. It's a bigger mistakes when your opponents call with a draw needing 42% equity rather than the 36% you mandated from them.

Usually you want to work back wards in a spot like this, especially if you have a low diamond and need to make a tough decision. You want to figure out if someone had the Ad, Kd, or Qd does their flop and turn play make sense according to how they bet the river. Im looking at the bet size in particular on the river from the old man, and its small in a relative sense, and this can somtimes indicate a willingness to fold to a raise. I think you need to determine if he will bet fold. Against a loose player I don't think Id turn my two pair into a bluff I might just fold.

The thing that sucks here is that you flopped hard but vulnerable on a hand you would have otherwise mucked OOP, and there's no real way to play it profitably. I'm ok with the flop bet, but with the pot being what it is you're not denying anyone odds to draw besides UTG, but he looks like an idiot with a 25bb stack...and his action is just enough to keep OMC happy and profitably drawing.

I'm not leading this turn 3-way. As played I probably don't even call the turn raise, tbh.

I'd think that a good majority of the time, your $20 bet will get everyone to fold. Flopping 2pr is huge & winning $8 is not.

In situations like this, I assume I will get at the most, 2 callers. I assume it is the 2nd caller with the most outs to his draw & make him pay. When OOP I have to bet more, so it would be $16 giving 2nd caller 2.5:1 on his money. When the comes on the turn, I bet $16 again & if I get raised, I fold.

The reason I do this: Normally a flush is held by only 1 person, so that person is only going to get 3.5:1 on his money [after I bet the turn]

If the doesn't come on the turn, there's $56 [let's say $6 in rake] =~$50
I bet $35.00.
If they both call, drawing to a flush, the best flush draw has got 7 outs & is [assuming we know all players cards] 42/7 = 6 or 5:1 is how I do it in my head at the table.

$50 is a tidy sum OOP, so I put a premium price on a draw.
If they both still call & the 2nd player has the best draw, he's getting 3.5:1 on his money.

However, this is not usually the norm - getting 2 callers - not when you flop top 2 pair. Rare bird to see 1 flop top 2, 1 a set [or bottom 2 pr] &1 a flush draw.

If you bet $20 on the flop, they both call [$62 in pot after rake] & comes on turn, what do we do? c/f?
If we b/f, we are giving them more money than my way. Although your way they pay a higher premium. However, you are out more money than I am.

When we give them an expensive price otf and they call, that's a victory for us. Regardless of whether or not they hit on a later street, they called instead of folded, they made a mistake and we won. The outcome of any one hand isn't something to be concerned with. If one of the other two players has XXdd and the other has no diamonds, there are 9 diamonds left in the deck and 34 non-diamonds. We're 79% to see a non-diamond hit ott.

Well played

UTG is exploitable in most ways that unskilled opponents are exploitable. He is expected to call too much, fold to much, become over-committed with absolute strength when relative strength is weak, he will draw without proper odds with good draws and bad, he will only buy in for small amounts and enter in each pot as if he had 100:1 implied odds. He won't bluff at the right times; bluffing when it's obvious he doesn't have a hand, and he will slowplay monsters and probably not get the value he should out of them... This guy is an exploitable player in that almost anything he does is probably -EV. He's the guy that playing Aces preflop is -EV because for him, sitting at the poker table is -EV...
He is the bread and butter of all the break even players at 1/2 NL. He would be considered a whale but he's stuck in the fish bowls of 1/2 buying in for the minimum.

I overbet the pot by $2. I don't make a habit of overbetting the pot, regardless of my hand strength. If I had flopped a set, your saying I should be betting $20? I want people with K's to call, I want 9's to come along for the ride. I don't mind flush draws coming along as they are calling without proper immediate odds. Of course if everyone calls, the last guys get a better price, but I don't know if that is going to happen.
I'm just unsure of this logic, it seems I should have just open shoved as I probably have the best hand and a flush draw would be getting a horrible price to call....

When you say ton of draws, there are only diamond draws and gutshots. If someone wants to draw for a gut shot they are more than welcome to do that! It's just going to cost them $10. Also, if they will call the $10 with a gutshot, but only call with Diamonds and fold gutshots to $20, I would rather bet the $10 to incite them to draw with their bad draws too.

I offered opponents 1.8:1 for the first caller, and after a caller, they are receiving 2.8:1 on a call. A FD is around 4.3:1 to hit the turn, they are not getting priced in with my bet in anyway.

Thanks for reading my post, and for your comments!

It's small in a relative sense? What do you mean? I think it's small in an absolute sense. The pot is 138 and he bet 40, that's under 1/3 of the pot. Also, he is betting into a dry side pot.

To be honest, bluffing this old man out of this pot at this time is totally out of the question. He more than likely has the goods methinks.

Thanks for your thoughts!

THanks! I'm learning!

Put this in the first post next time, this is what I was looking for. Some guys are bad for different reasons than others, we need to know which one it is. The only problem is the bolded, they can't both be the case.

Why not? If someone will call $50 into a pot of $5, then bet $50. Don't be concerned with pot size, think about how much the Vs will call.

That is true, calling $10 is a negative play for a fd otf. But you gave these guys plenty of implied odds. The flush hit ott and you bet/called. So UTG only needed 15% equity to make a profitable call otf, and a fd has that much equity.

It's a very tight game if fd's are calling $10 and not $20. If that's the case, then only bet $10. But I doubt the nut flush draw is folding to a $20 bet otf. And I doubt someone playing a hand as bad as 63dd, i.e., is even keeping track of how much the pot is. My point is bet the most that'll get called, I don't think $10 is your ceiling.

How am I not denying anyone odds to draw? I bet 1.2x pot!?

See my response to eldeisel.

No real way to play it profitably ,are you trolling?
I flopped top two. It's a profitable flop position.

I disagree. I think people can both call too often and fold too often, it just depends on the spot.

I called the UTG raise because he has anything there. The old man didn't have a flush because he just called, or at least he doesn't have it very often. Most of the time he is drawing or has the K

I want to address this over betting, but I have to go right now. i'll get back to it soon!
Thanks for your detailed responses, It is great when people make me think at look at things different ways! THanks!

I think what eldiesel is saying is that you are describing this player as both a calling station and a nit. He simply cannot be both. Perhaps you mean that he calls with too many hands preflop, but folds too many hands on flop/turn? This would likely be more accurate because players' tendencies often shift postflop.

Also, I tend to agree with eldiesel with respect to overbetting. Game dynamics will often be more relevant than pot size when determining how much to bet. Most LLSNL players will pay just about anything to peel a turn with flush draws, and the greater your overbet, the more money you are pocketing over time.

As played, your line seems fine in that you bet, bet, check/folded.

^ Yeah, if he has those problems in different spots, OP needs to tell us about those spots. We're not mind-readers.

bet more on flop, 20-30

why are you betting turn? you should never bet this turn, you just got called on flop, didnt you consider that maybe you got called by diamonds? you want to draw to boat as cheap as possible.

good fold.

Bet/folding the turn is completely reasonable seeing as how loose passive opponents call lots of bets with hands that we beat, but only raise us when they have better.

but they also dont fold flushes, and so with bet.fold you dont stack flushes when you river boats, i think our hand is too strong to be bet.folding this turn, besides if you want to take this line why not just check turn and fold to a bigger sized bet anyways, achieves the same thing and saves money